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Old 02 July 2012, 18:58   #41
Dhf
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It's worth bearing in mind that most incidents at sea are within a mile from shore, and more than likely caused by sum nutter who's just purchased his/her new toy on a whim, thinking it's all as easy as those guys make it look on those tube vid's..... I love heading out past that one mile nutter zone... it all get's so peaceful even the engine sounds quieter, so i think more emphasis is needed in this nutter zone, and at very least make it compulsary to read, The rules of the road, and shown to understand it. and maybe take the free CG boat check and chat, I see newbies on here asking the way forward, and I think thats great, there already half way there really by not being to "now it all" and willing to learn before launch.
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Old 02 July 2012, 19:26   #42
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+1

In almost no other area are you allowed to use or operate machinery that is capable of killing you and others without some form of licensing and training (and thereby regulation)
This is untrue, you only need to be licenced and have insurance and MOT for a vehicle on public roads, on private land you can do what you want.
In fact most equipment when privately used requires no training or licencing, only at work are you subject to some of this.
Even at work for many examples it isn't law, just "industry best practice" which the HSE get you for in the event of an accident.
I can't see any benefit or possibility of policing compulsory training for small craft, the very folk that would ignore it are the ones at highest risk.
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Old 02 July 2012, 19:30   #43
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Simple, the same way Police enforce the drink driving regs to passengers of cars! ie it doesnt apply!
Nope, the driver of a vehicle, even stationary and parked can be done for being drunk in charge of a vehicle, he just needs to be "in charge"

I am not arguing that folk should be driving boats drunk, just that there is enough legislation nowadays to restrict personal freedoms, more irrelevant laws that cannot be enforced yet screw everyone around are not needed.

Its unenforceable anyway, how would the Police pull you over and breathalyse you if they suspected you, how would they know and how would they catch you?
Up this way the police don't have a boat nearer than the Clyde and the CG are rarely seen and, to be honest, looking for drugs rather than drunks......
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Old 02 July 2012, 19:33   #44
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This is untrue, you only need to be licenced and have insurance and MOT for a vehicle on public roads, on private land you can do what you want.
In fact most equipment when privately used requires no training or licencing, only at work are you subject to some of this.
Even at work for many examples it isn't law, just "industry best practice" which the HSE get you for in the event of an accident.
I can't see any benefit or possibility of policing compulsory training for small craft, the very folk that would ignore it are the ones at highest risk.
Fine then the same exclusion could be made for area's of the ocean and sea that are private, and closed to the public and other users.
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Old 02 July 2012, 19:40   #45
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The rules as I understand are if I'm a danger to shipping/others or unable to make headway I can be stopped by an official and held until the police come. (can't remember where I heard that, but makes sense)
Not sure about this, I know that a few years ago when the fatal accident happened off Tobermory the police breathalysed the surviving cox and then could not figure out if they had any right to do so.
Don't know what the outcome of this was.
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Old 02 July 2012, 20:59   #46
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Not sure about this, I know that a few years ago when the fatal accident happened off Tobermory the police breathalysed the surviving cox and then could not figure out if they had any right to do so.
Don't know what the outcome of this was.
maybe this link works

MAIB renews call for alcohol limits for leisure boaters | Motor Boat News | MBY

How about this one, I person dead, going too fast at night, inadequate training, drunk, and no safety gear
http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources...0Kate-Kets.pdf

still no need for regs?????
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Old 02 July 2012, 21:00   #47
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sorry second link here

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources...0Kate-Kets.pdf
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Old 03 July 2012, 03:18   #48
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Not sure about this, I know that a few years ago when the fatal accident happened off Tobermory the police breathalysed the surviving cox and then could not figure out if they had any right to do so.
Don't know what the outcome of this was.
That is one of many where experienced people (usually with qualifications) cause serious injuries to either their own crew or other boats. [Wasn't there another RIB accendent on the thames where they had been at a party and took the boat out and ran into a ferry]

I think quite a few MAIB reports show alchohol has a contributory factor. Even on the 200+ tonne stuff.

I think qualifications and alchohol consupmption are two seperate issues. Personally I don't agree with mandatory qualifications. When you set a limit then people tend not to go further. I some times change my mind when the jet skiers drive across the speed limit corridors at 30 + knots and through the bathers) but then I am not sure qualifications would stop that.

Alchohol seems to be more of an issue and by my reckoning a national limit needs to be imposed at least people should know if it contributes to an accident. As indicated by others, no one quite seems to know.
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Old 03 July 2012, 04:06   #49
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Is there realy anything wrong with enforcing "mullets" in small craft to carry life jackets,a vhf,anchor, oars, extra fuel, 1st aid kit,sound signal device,water, torch...etc its common sense to experienced mariners(most wouldnt go to sea with 1 engine),but remember most incidents occur within a mile of the coast....the most dangerous area to have problems in... and who gets called out....but not sure about light bulbs...
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Old 03 July 2012, 07:43   #50
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maybe this link works

MAIB renews call for alcohol limits for leisure boaters | Motor Boat News | MBY

How about this one, I person dead, going too fast at night, inadequate training, drunk, and no safety gear
http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources...0Kate-Kets.pdf

still no need for regs?????
I was not putting forward that particular incident forward to justify any viewpoint and am aware of what happened. I was simply making the point that the Police were not aware that they had any right to charge a leisure boater with being drunk in charge.
I am still not sure myself even now.

I am well qualified and equipped and I don't drink at all, none of the proposals being made here would affect me one jot.
However I bet they would in the future asregulation never seems to stop tightening. I am sure eventually I would be very restricted in what I wanted to do if some beauracrat was placed in charge of what was OK.
I don't think folk should be drinking and driving boats but there has to be some common sense about how it is applied in real life, a system similiar to motor vehicles just wouldn't work in practice and is unenforceable.
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