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Old 05 June 2013, 16:00   #101
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The problem wth the car type systems (RF-ID?) is the range. Not all accidents are high speed - what is the minimum turning circle if you fell over the side? If performance is similar to the last car I usesd with that sort of 'keyless entry' system - I could have the system on my lifejcket, and still have the boat run me over repeatedly (or at least once).

RF isn't accurate or discriminate enough - which is the main problem with that tech.

D...

All which brings us back to that bloody bit of string
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Old 05 June 2013, 16:23   #102
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Exactomundo...

Unless someone has a better idea?!?
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Old 05 June 2013, 16:46   #103
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The problem with this whole thread is that we aren't the ones who will fund, research, design, manufacture or implement a solution - although I accept that a minority on here are involved in some way due to their day to day work - PGIC for example - but generally......

That's not to say I'm dismissing it - as others have said, if a system as reliable as a kill cord came along, which you couldn't 'forget' to use - then that would be excellent.

I doubt that airbags, ABS, traction control or crumple zones would have been developed by a 'motor' forum to protect drivers and pedestrians - but that's what some seem to be implying that WE (Ribnet) should be doing...

The people to implement this would be the industry itself - boat builders/engine suppliers etc - but there is no incentive for them to do so, as if the kill chord is supplied, but not used, it's user error - i.e. nothing to do with them.

I'm not sure how you would apply pressure to the industry to change. The govt did this for the car industry to reduce the number of road deaths - but do the stats support government action on mandating a new system as part of the CE rating (for example)? I think Nos's review of PGIC's stats shows that the incidence of these injuries is so small (compared to other accidents/injuries) that it simply wouldn't be an H&S priority.

I also want to add that I don't think that the majority on here are at all complacent - but experienced and have an awareness of what might work, or not.
Agree 100%.

As mentioned earlier in the Sydney Afloat article, we have had two high profile cases of boats that have hurt people in the workplace and fines issued. You can bet that most commercial and government boats are now being risk assessed and will need to do something.

The next round of tenders for boats will give manufacturers an opportunity to be innovative.
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Old 05 June 2013, 18:13   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGR View Post
The problem wth the car type systems (RF-ID?) is the range. Not all accidents are high speed - what is the minimum turning circle if you fell over the side? If performance is similar to the last car I usesd with that sort of 'keyless entry' system - I could have the system on my lifejcket, and still have the boat run me over repeatedly (or at least once).

RF isn't accurate or discriminate enough - which is the main problem with that tech.

D...
Downsize from 7+m
I will take it off your hands
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Old 12 June 2013, 12:48   #105
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Sounder Idea

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You shot my sounder idea down. Fair enough, it was a bit of a brainstorming moment. OK, I admit I haven't had time to trawl the US patent databese etc, but 2007 was 5 years ago. Playboxes now recognise you instead of just knowing what you are doing with your arms & legs - Lowrance now do an HD side scan. Think the thought might be worth a wee re-visit?
I didn't shoot it down. I think it is a great idea. I merely said I had put forward a similar idea on our site on multiple occasions trying to interest the industry in pursuing it and had especially promoted it back in 2007 when the technology was making some advances.

Yes, fish finder / sounder and related technologies have developed a long ways since 2007 and are very worthy of being pursued as a means of preventing boat propeller injuries.

Similar visual methods are actually in use in several U.S. and European swimming pools to detect swimmers needing assistance to prevent drowning. We previously called that technology to the attention of the industry as well.

Fish Finding and computer vision were among several technologies I did not mention here earlier because several members wanted to focus only on technologies directly related to preventing kill cord accidents.

gary
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Old 12 June 2013, 12:56   #106
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I didn't shoot it down. I think it is a great idea. I merely said I had put forward a similar idea on our site on multiple occasions trying to interest the industry in pursuing it and had especially promoted it back in 2007 when the technology was making some advances.

Yes, fish finder / sounder and related technologies have developed a long ways since 2007 and are very worthy of being pursued as a means of preventing boat propeller injuries.

Similar visual methods are actually in use in several U.S. and European swimming pools to detect swimmers needing assistance to prevent drowning. We previously called that technology to the attention of the industry as well.

Fish Finding and computer vision were among several technologies I did not mention here earlier because several members wanted to focus only on technologies directly related to preventing kill cord accidents.

gary
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...............that reminds me I have better things to do than offer any more suggestions in this environment. See ya next year.

gary

That didn't last long, I knew you couldn't stay away. Nos, Have you been doing your mind control thingy again?
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Old 12 June 2013, 15:06   #107
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That didn't last long, I knew you couldn't stay away. Nos, Have you been doing your mind control thingy again?
Yep
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Old 12 June 2013, 15:38   #108
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and the world would be a safer place if all vehicles were limited to 30mph, well why not 20. Far more people are killed on the roads every day. and much safer indeed if all private vessels were banned from launching. How much of a nanny state do we want? Are we also to believe that someone struck by a propguard at 60mph is going to survive-I doubt it. Might be less dramatic but still fatal. The nearest I came to a prop incident was out in Greece where we saw, at the last minute a snorkeller who was an incredible distance offshore, on his own with a black snorkel with no bright coloured tip, and no dive flag or float. If we had hit him I reckon he was a gonner- prop guard or no prop guard but I suppose he would have been for some folk's purposes a propeller injury! So lets ban swimming without a marker flag please before we get to prop guards. I've used them and they are a nightmare.
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Old 12 June 2013, 15:47   #109
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Yep
Thought so, naughty Nos, tut tut!
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Old 13 June 2013, 10:39   #110
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As a mere recreational boater, my life jacket requirements here are pretty lax. I just need to have them and they need to be "immediately accessible" but they don't need to be worn or even commercial size. With out water temps, if you are in a drysuit (or thick wetsuit) you'll float quite well and actually survive if you got ejected.
I'm sure the CG is well aware of the buoyancy of divers' exposure protection. They insist on PFD's because it gives them a single enforceable regulation to deal with.


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The only time we'd pull up to a diver under power would be an emergency when they are unable to swim themselves the last 4-5m. This would be a challenging and dangerous event. I have practiced a couple times but still never going to be like a real situation.
I keep a throw bag handy (clipped to the radar arch) specifically for this type of event. Work as long as the victim is conscious and responsive (and warm enough to be able to hang onto the line.)

I wouldn't hesitate to motor slowly up to an incapacitated person, but I would keep them towards the bow of the boat and manually move them further back for recovery. Or put a diver in the water to position the victim (in which case the motor would be shut down.)



Quote:
For slow speed or startup strikes I would love to see something like a electromagnetic proximity sensor. Basically any human body part within 1-2m of the lower unit would trigger the kill switch.
I wonder how you'd differentiate between say, a human leg and a fish or log or some other thing nearby?

jky
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