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Old 30 September 2003, 04:36   #11
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Nice idea Richard - Sadly we were handed the last of four course alterations 1 hour before the scheduled start of Fridays race - luckily that gave us 3 3/4 hours to update the GPS!
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Originally Posted by Zippy
When a boat looks that good who needs tubes!!!
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Old 30 September 2003, 04:47   #12
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Is that normal, or is the course usually set in advance - i suppose some movement of the markers is inevitable?
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Old 30 September 2003, 05:16   #13
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The course is normally announced 1 or 2 weeks in advance, but things change nearer the time.

More effective marshalling is the way to go - it is unralistic to expect spectaors to find out the exact course and where to watch from. I have marshalled at 2 class one races and the public is kept behind a row of buoys - otherwise the race doesn't start!
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Originally Posted by Zippy
When a boat looks that good who needs tubes!!!
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Old 30 September 2003, 05:29   #14
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Westy

On the whole you raise some interesting points but I disagree with spectators contacting race control asking for course updates. If half the spectator boats did this race control would never have time to start the race.

The course should be laid and the safety/race fleet advised before the race starts. We both agree its not rocket science and if the UK wants to see more Pro-Vee / Class 1 then they need to shape up.

In my view it should have been the safety fleet to control the course and they should hold responsibility for spectators, whoever they are, crossing the race line. If race control changed the course how can anyone be expected to know the best place to watch it from.

Having done safety for 10+ years I have seen races, including Cowes, start without mark boats and proper cover around the course. At this years Cowes I recovered one Pro-Vee boat ( Ceramica P ) on the Friday from an area that I wasn’t covering because no one else was there and assisted with the sinking Attacking Vikings on the Sunday.

Again in my view if you are involved in an serious incident sinking boat/ injury then there should be a post-mortem ( not literally ) on what happened and how things could have been done better.

Ultimately race drivers should expect that the course is clear and the appropriate level of safety is there for them to race safely. As the safety fleet is all volunteer boats the RYA should provide better backup/support and even could even run courses based on experiences from previous years.

Cheers

Mark
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Old 30 September 2003, 05:31   #15
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Westy,

Sorry but I dissagree. When sitting there in clear site of a Marshall waiting for 45 mins for a race to start, you would think that the Marshall may have mentioned that you where in the line of the race. When I spoke to them they had no idea. We had all the paperwork printed out, and listened on the VHF to race control, and to be honest, it did not do us much good.

In addition there was simply not enough marshalls in our area. Yachts etc where causing issues. At one point Marshals where busy dealing with towing people that had retired etc, and we took it upon ourselves to warn off the oncoming Yachts.

I think this was a case of bad comms all round. We must all learn from this and move on. I hope improvements are made for next year.
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Old 30 September 2003, 06:03   #16
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Mark/Andy
I didn't mean that people should contact race control but merely listening should have been enough or asking QHM on ch 11.
I understand about the safety problems, we rescued Pro Vee 1 in Cowes after the incident with the yacht and there were no safety boats in the vicinity.
Sunday at Portsmouth seemed to be that the marshalls were not prepared for so many breakdowns in such a short space of time.
However, my point still stands, you were on your own where you were and maybe should have realised that something was amiss! It is your responsibility to ensure the safety of you and your crew, merely getting a cutting from the newspaper is incredulous (although the fort was clearly shown as a turn in our newspaper cutting).
It seems to be that some people are happy to put their lives in the hands of some marshalls which is very complacent. I think it is wishful thinking that the RYA will learn from this, it's all on a wing and a prayer. If no one is killed they get away with it, if someone is killed, public perception will be that it was the fault of the "rich prima donna" powerboater. Ignorance appears to be bliss.
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Old 30 September 2003, 06:17   #17
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Question was the race area & times published in the local notice to mariners and press?
When we have run major sailling events ( mainly Dinghy) the course area is (normally!)well published. The safety boats are there to look after the participents and to warn the sectators of the course.
They are also there to escort through people who can't go round, ie split the raceing fleet and send them astern the vessel.
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Old 30 September 2003, 07:58   #18
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QHM issued a Local Notice to Mariners regarding the racing during w/e 20 September complete with a chartlet of the course and full details inc waypoints.

Might be worth singing up for the free e-mail LTM service for future info on the various events held in the eastern Solent.

http://www.qhmportsmouth.com/LNTM/lntm.htm
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Old 30 September 2003, 08:03   #19
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Westly,

It seems you don't listen ... how could we be on our own if the marshall and official camera boat was there also? Why did the marshalls not ensure the course was clear, especially around a nice blind bend like a large fort.

I don't expect to be told where safe passages are, if I did I would never leave the shore. As it happens we saw them coming and moved to a safe distance.

Officials are there for everybodies safety and I have to say they did not contribute to either the safety of the race drivers, spectators or press at that time. That's all my point is. No more no less.
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Old 30 September 2003, 08:51   #20
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Andy,
No need for agression my friend. You have joined in, I was not referring to you initially.
I merely know what I saw on the on boat cameras and helicopter footage, I was not referring to your boat.
I maintain what I said, none of us should be complacent and assume that the marshalls know what they were/are doing.
Ultimately, it was a close thing but no one came out hurt and hopefully lessons have been learnt.
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