MAIB report for RIB "Big Yellow"

[WINDRIDER]

Rogue, I AGREE!!
I wrote
"I would normally support the skipper 100% as he would not have known the boat defects. However to operate without the required endorsements is I am afraid, criminal......"

[John Kennett]

John, as an aside, how do you manage to fuel the boat and remain 100% legal? As far as I am aware there is no petrol on the quayside at Whitehaven, so I guess you must be transporting it by road in jerry cans. What are the licensing and insurance implications of this?

I'm sure it must be possible to do legally (for instance Voyages of Discovery move 1000 lites a day in jerry cans at peak season), but I know it's something a lot of people struggle with.

Any pointers would be much appreciated.

Thanks
John

[Shaggy]

This is an interesting section about how "Big Yellow" came to operate in St. Ives.



1.15 PENWITH DISTRICT COUNCIL AND ST IVES HARBOURMASTER’S
INSTRUCTIONS
Penwith District Council does not have any specific licensing requirements for operations in St Ives harbour. However, as part of his general duties, the harbourmaster issues broad instructions in the form of Codes of Practice to ensure safety within his area of jurisdiction.

A copy of the Code for Fast RIB Operations is at Annex G. In the interest of public safety, the harbourmaster also requires companies carrying fee paying passengers to seek his approval to operate.

The owners of Big Yellow were well known to Penwith District Council and the St Ives harbour harbourmaster. For the past 4-5 years, the skipper of Big Yellow had operated a small company offering low power, self-drive, pleasure boat rides within the confines of St Ives harbour.
The business had been conducted to the harbourmaster’s satisfaction. When he was approached to approve the Big Yellow’s operation, he confirmed that the Code compliance examination had been completed and that the skipper held the appropriate powerboat qualification. He then recommended to Penwith District Council that the request to operate the Big Yellow pleasure rides should be endorsed.

Shaggy

[RIVA]

the ribeye that does rib rides in the same bay refused to go to sea on the day this happened .

far to ruff in theier opinion

[Solent Ranger]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

I think yeah well if it's so difficult to get how come it gets tacked on to the end of a weeks tuition as I mentioned in my post.

I could tell you some interesting stories about that one!

[Scary Des]

In percentage terms I think the split between poor build quality and lack of judgement on behalf of the skipper is 99% in favour of poor build.

Had the boat stayed together he’d of had a boat load of wet and possibly relieved punters who had just experienced why ribs are so good.

Had he capsized the boat or stuffed it badly and broken a punters leg or two you could argue it the other way.I think that all injuries were due to hull failing.

Lack of qualification is a technicality for someone with experience, how many O level or A level equivalents did Einstein have Des

[codprawn]

Fully agree Des - maybe the skipper decided his experience was far more valuable than someone who has just done a "crash" course!!!

He can not have expected his boat to fall apart under him.!!!

As to being wrong to offer "thrill" rides why not? In this PC age maybe people find the word offensive - it implies a voyage purely for enjoyment.....

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Richard B

Shaggy, that makes very interesting reading!
I thought that against a Ferryman, the Falcon actually starts to look like class cutting edge construction! OK, maybe not!

Are these actually photos of the inside of the Ferryman? If so no wonder!!!

[codprawn]

Interesting to note the dislocated shoulder actually occurred AFTER the accident - when the bloke was being rescued!!!!

[Andy Gee]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Fully agree Des - maybe the skipper decided his experience was far more valuable than someone who has just done a "crash" course!!!

He can not have expected his boat to fall apart under him.!!!

As to being wrong to offer "thrill" rides why not? In this PC age maybe people find the word offensive - it implies a voyage purely for enjoyment.....

The thrill bit is what the insurance companies crap their pants at!!! same way that now it is not uncommon for the insurance companies to look at websites, phone for information etc posing as a customer and then writting to you with their concerns.

Andy

[ollyit]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

This is an interesting section about how "Big Yellow" came to operate in St. Ives.



1.15 PENWITH DISTRICT COUNCIL AND ST IVES HARBOURMASTER’S
INSTRUCTIONS
Penwith District Council does not have any specific licensing requirements for operations in St Ives harbour. However, as part of his general duties, the harbourmaster issues broad instructions in the form of Codes of Practice to ensure safety within his area of jurisdiction.

A copy of the Code for Fast RIB Operations is at Annex G. In the interest of public safety, the harbourmaster also requires companies carrying fee paying passengers to seek his approval to operate.

The owners of Big Yellow were well known to Penwith District Council and the St Ives harbour harbourmaster. For the past 4-5 years, the skipper of Big Yellow had operated a small company offering low power, self-drive, pleasure boat rides within the confines of St Ives harbour.
The business had been conducted to the harbourmaster’s satisfaction. When he was approached to approve the Big Yellow’s operation, he confirmed that the Code compliance examination had been completed and that the skipper held the appropriate powerboat qualification. He then recommended to Penwith District Council that the request to operate the Big Yellow pleasure rides should be endorsed.

Shaggy

why are the outboards so small on those speedboats!!??

[ADS]

Originally Posted by ollyit

why are the outboards so small on those speedboats!!??

I assume they are not meant to plane, just displacement speeds for tourists to hire.
Not every boat has the power to weight ratio of a an Evo 7 Ollie

[ollyit]

Originally Posted by ADS

I assume they are not meant to plane, just displacement speeds for tourists to hire.
Not every boat has the power to weight ratio of a an Evo 7 Ollie

ha ha

[DGR]

...but the helsman should not have been putting a group of paying customers (including children) in a situation where stuffing the bow was even remotely possilbe.

I don't agree. Yes - IF you KNOW you are going to stuff it (hmm, right), or conditions mean that you are likely to, but the 2 stuffs I've had have been in quite benign conditions - one of those with passengers.

First stuff - (as I've mentioned elsewhere on here) with wind over tide over the bar at Barmouth on a big spring tide. I'd never seen a stretch of water change so fast in my life, 2-3 ft swell and a F4 going to short steep 10-12 foot breaking waves in less than 20 minutes (while I'd been out). The stuff was slow (low energy) so no-one got thrown around and nothing got damaged, and we drove through it - but I still stuffed it.

Second stuff - driving an Altantic 75 and falling into a 'hole' in the wake patterns of a Mersey class ALB . It was F5/6 and sea conditions were slight - still managed it tho. (In my defence m'lud, I wasn't informed that the bow ballast tank was full, so it didn't behave as I was expecting at that point...and as I was the only one not in a dry-suit - nobody was that bothered...).

Having said that - I don't understand how the skipper could manage to do that without being qualified. I had to jump through hoops to prove to the council that I was.

And my insurance doesn't limit me to 25kts - although my advertising doesn't use the words 'adrenaline', 'ultimate' etc. I think it goes as far as 'Exciting', or maybe even 'Exhilarating' but that's about it...

D...

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by ollyit

why are the outboards so small on those speedboats!!??

ADS is right Olly, these boats are supposed to go slow, limited to around 3-4 knots I think, never seen one go any faster, its fun weaving in and out of em as you come into St.Ives

Shaggy

[wavelength]

Failures of not only the hull, but of enforcement by Derry in enforcing provisions of Recreational craft directive CE marking (and they are not alone there!). If there is no enforcement/inspection regime then the integrity of the CE mark is down to the manufacturer's conscience alone. Followed by the relevant local authority in the area for not ensuring the qualification requirements were met before allowing the venture.

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by wavelength

If there is no enforcement/inspection regime then the integrity of the CE mark is down to the manufacturer's conscience alone.

But isn't that how it works? It was some years ago that I looked into it, but I'm sure that it was basically a self-certification scheme.

John

[wavelength]

Yes but it is the responsibility of the local weights and measures authority to enforce the directive in their area-in effect the trading standards dept. The comment in the report was from memory that the the enforcement was reactive (to complaints ?) and not proactive (routine inspection), so apparently no routine inspection was carried out by enforcement officers to ensure the trader in their area was applying the terms of the directive on each model manufactured and had the documentation to support it.