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Old 12 September 2010, 17:44   #11
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the buoyancy is not in the right place, so you need a 275n lifejacket to counter act the dry suit and to make sure it rights you if face down or feet up!
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Old 13 September 2010, 04:28   #12
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or make sure you have most of the air out of the dry suit by crouching down and letting the air out of the neck. You do tend to look a bit vacuumed packed when you stand up though!!! This technique works with my Musto HPX suits.

But when I come to replace may current life jackets I will buy the Crewsaver 190N's.
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Old 13 September 2010, 04:51   #13
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the crewsavers 190n, lifejacket is still only certified to 150N, since 150n or 275n are the only standards...as I said in original post despite what crewsaver says... 275n lifejacket is the recommend size for dry suit...

this is the advice from RNLI who have no vested interest in selling any product. why take chance with life...

and those who don't wear a lifejacket, the insurance company will not pay new till 7 years after death if no body is found, you can thank the missing kayaker who faked his death for this one.

so not only does your loved ones lose you, they lose the house and any income for 7 years.

scott
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Old 13 September 2010, 05:50   #14
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the crewsavers 190n, lifejacket is still only certified to 150N, since 150n or 275n are the only standards...as I said in original post despite what crewsaver says... 275n lifejacket is the recommend size for dry suit...
Scott - I don't care what it is "certified" to do - I care what it does. Therefore the 190N jacket presumably provides more buoyancy than a 150N jacket without being as difficult to move around in (inflated) as a 275N. I'm not sure how crewsaver came up with 190N but it doesn't seem like a "round" number - so I guess there has at least been some thought to it - if only from the marketing department.

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this is the advice from RNLI who have no vested interest in selling any product. why take chance with life...
Thats the sort of "preaching" I would expect from Sea Safety Advisors and I was shot down in flames a few weeks ago for suggesting was my expectation... but I've heard quite a few people say that getting out the water in a 275N jacket is no mean feat. There are downsides to having too much buoyancy - indeed the "Army Cadets" probably thought no harm in having "extra Newtons" before their tragic accident in the Western Isles.

Then you need to balance the relatively low probability event of ending up in the water and relying on the difference between 150 and 275 N to save your life versus the much more likely scenario of accidentally falling in and being fished back out possibly with some difficulty due to the size then having to pay to rearm the bigger more expensive jacket. Likewise if you accidentally trigger it when launching/recovering etc. One of the possible consequences of this is people removing their lifejacket when doing activities that might mean the end up in the water (e.g. leaning over the back to free a snagged rope from the prop, puling a swimmer/skier out the water, trying to get up a slippy harbour ladder etc) - when the perceived "cost" or rearming and the "hassle" of being "trapped" in a 275N jacket is much higher than the perceived risk of going in the drink in a "safe" environment . I'm not sure the RNLI want to encourage people to remove lifejackets at the wrong moment. The relative risks vary with the type of activity - clearly an offshore single-handed sailor or a sib "beach hopping" with the family in relatively nice weather experience very different scenarios - but both may well be wearing a dry suit whether it is for comfort, safety or "style".

I'm not sure why the RNLI have decided its better to present it is clear cut - when in reality its probably not.

It would be much more compelling for the manufacturers or the "sea safety" people to demonstrate for real the pro's and con's of each. In the age of youtube that sounds like something easy to do. Crotch strap type demos should be easy too. I guess it may(?) be included in a Sea Survival course - but only a small fraction of people will do that.
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Old 13 September 2010, 06:34   #15
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Consider that you can deflate jackets to ease getting out of the water. But if you dont have enough 'newtons' to keep you up to start with you cant add them in once in the water if you never had them to start with ............ a partially deflated 150N kept me up in full wet gear - infact a 50N built in to a jacket also kept me up (but not face up) .....

If you want a good day out and to learn a huge amount do the sea survival course........
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Old 13 September 2010, 08:31   #16
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Neil, my first bit if advice is the best life jacket is the one that you wear!

the army cadet, had a 480 N life jacket!

I been on both Sea Survival and RNlI lifejacket course...I am giving you the official advice.

I did also say in thread if in doubt ask for advice from an advisor. We don't preach but advise.

The reason the buoyancy aid is 50 N is that an average person weighs 5kg in sea water.

add gravity, you 50 N , is roughly the right amount to make your body neutral in water. hence it's a buoyancy aid.

150N life jacket , I stated will be suffeint for most people in most circumstances.

275 N is the only Jacket that will guarantee to right a dry suit, it's bulky, slightly heavier , makes getting into life raft more difficult, but you can always deflate it slightly if need.

The new crewsavers 190N might be better, but then again, why have other companies not do the same?

the perception is more is better, but as usaul the proper equipment for right situation..
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Old 13 September 2010, 11:25   #17
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The new crewsavers 190N might be better, but then again, why have other companies not do the same?
They are doing - there are 160s, 175, 190, 225s - as mentioned previously it fills the gap between a 'lightwieght' 150 that you can move around in easily, and a bulky 275 that is uncomfortable if you spend any time in it.

I wear a 150N lifejacket (Omega - Lazilas?) when out on my boat - and at the end of the day, I've often forgotten that I'm still wearing it (a bit embarrasing in the pub)!! The 275N crewsaver jacket I wear otherwise is bulky and uncomfortable - and I take it off when I'm in the wheelhouse. The intermediate sizes might allow some users to find a jacket that's comfortable - but with more than the 150N that is standard.

I've yet to find a comfortable 275N jacket - they are just too bulky.

The only advice I'd give is that when you've found one you like -check how much the recharge/servicing kit is and how easy it is to get hold of them. One of the new jackets (I think it's the Secumar one) has a refill 'cartridge' system, which is very expensive to replace/service.
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Old 13 September 2010, 12:20   #18
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Thanks

for the replies, guys.
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Old 13 September 2010, 12:59   #19
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I've got a Viking SOLAS 1, these are now being offered with a built in pull down spray hood, very sensible idea. They arent cheap but they are well made and robust.
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Old 13 September 2010, 13:25   #20
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i use a secumar survival 275N life jacket with my dry suit - had it on for hours at the time very comfortable, compact...i had it on for complete week from 0800hrs to 1800 hrs for 7 days when doing safety cover for the Great Glen Raid corpach to inverness along the canal.

www.secumar.com

If you go down this route, i suggest you buy re-arming kits, since these are NOT popular in UK by leisure, but used extensively in the commercial sector.

If possible try different ones on and move about, bend down etc...or if you can borrow a mates for a trip.

regards

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