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Old 02 September 2004, 06:10   #41
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Cotton wool is much better!!!
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Old 02 September 2004, 07:28   #42
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I would like to agree to Jono's suggestion.
As Messrs. Pratt, Pillock and Plonker are likely to remain with us for some time unless we do something about it, perhaps a selective cull would improve the gene pool.
Unfortunately though, I suspect Sir Robert Peel might have something to say about it.
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Old 02 September 2004, 09:56   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
You are, I am sure, a very responsible person and you run an outfit renting out powerboats to the public. Hmm. Now then let me see. I dont think you should hire a boat out to someone who is not at the level of RYA Instructor. Certainly all passengers must also be qualified in case they have to take over control of the boat. At least one crew member must be a properly trained paramedic. All aboard must wear full lifejackets 100% of the time.............I could go on. But you see where I am coming from? My "proposal" my be jolly sensible an may reduce the number of your clients that get hurt. But is it worth it?
I have answered this before. In Greece it does not matter you have Power Boat 1,2,3,4,1million certificate as this is ONLY for UK domestic use and is NOT recoginsed Internationaly.
What you need is to have to drive any power boat in Greece or in Europe (I think) is an ICC or if you come form another EU country the equivalent certificate there or if you come from the US, Australia etc an International Boating Certificate of Competence that is recognised in the EU.
When you hire a sailingh yacht you need to have two people with sailing yacht licences but for a power boat only one suffices. This is THE REGULATION here.
Now to have peace of mind and not to be asked question such as (Does this boat have a steering wheel? and this round thing screwed on the wall near the engine must be the oil filter (it was the fuel water separator in fact), and last and the funniest can you guarantee that the sea will be clam and would I get my money back if is not IT HAPPENED!!) we ONLY Hire our boats to people who have an ICC or equivalent EU certificate for a minimum of 3 years.

I agree with the popular view (which I also share 100%) that training is the answer but how many people will do it voluntarily. On the other hand if it was a law that said to get on a boat you MUST have a boating certificate of competence then everyone will get trained and accidents will be minimised IMHO.
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Old 02 September 2004, 10:29   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manos
we ONLY Hire our boats to people who have an ICC or equivalent EU certificate for a minimum of 3 years.
3 years is a very long time to rent a rib, surely it would be cheaper to buy one instead!
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Old 03 September 2004, 03:34   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
Of course, no one wants anybody killed or injured boating. But you can’t take risk out of the whole of life.
I agree with Brian. The risk factor is part and parcel of going boating whether crossing the Solent or taking part in a longer trip. I love to hear stories from others about adventures they have undertaken and sometimes the near misses they have had (Makes me feel a bit better about my own ). All part of the amazing fun of boating. People have generously posted on RIBnet in the past about incidents they have had in the hope of helping someone else. (And they have, thank you.)

Because incidents do happen. By and large they are freely reported and by and large people are sympathetic, seeking to understand, query crew actions and equipment functions/design in a responsible way or even offering to support. Sadly a very tiny minority choose to attack, incredible as it may seem!!!!!! All the more incredible when you see a fellow boater has suffered harm in one way or another!!!

There are unfortunately people like that out there who see their chance to ‘stick the boot in’ (to quote one) and therein lies the danger. Those are perhaps exactly the callous types who may think nothing of litigation should something go wrong. And stuff happens to all of us.




I’m not particularly brave but I know I’d prefer to go boating any day with an experienced risk-taker who can handle themselves in a crisis (and we have had the privilege of going to sea with many of those, and learning from them too, thank you). I think it was Dirk who once made the point about the ridiculousness of wearing a lifejacket at the Captain’s Table on a cruise . If people didn’t take risks we wouldn’t have the wonderful powerboat racing we witnessed last weekend in the Solent, or all the great stories about trips we have read. Including Keith (tales to tell) Hart’s amazing SIBbing adventures.



At the same time, responsible safety advice is always welcome in my view and I will always read Phil and Chris’ comments with interest as they are involved with safety in a professional capacity. Recently an instructor (and I think it was Paul Glatzel) generously posted in detail about MOB procedures. I really welcome such advice and try to learn from it so that I can try to do a bit better (make fewer mistakes ) next time. And I’m sure, Manos, for a commercial operator (i.e. when money changes hands for the experience of going boating) such advice and support is essential.

Missus
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Old 03 September 2004, 06:24   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jackeens
And I’m sure, Manos, for a commercial operator (i.e. when money changes hands for the experience of going boating) such advice and support is essential.Missus
UPSOLUTELY even with or without reputation points
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Old 03 September 2004, 06:44   #47
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God the lengths peeps go to for a greenie (done)


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Old 04 September 2004, 18:23   #48
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Originally Posted by Scary Des
On average 12500 people die each year from accidents of which over half (6600) are more than 65 years old.
28% of deaths caused by accident occur on the roads.
32% of deaths caused by accident occur at home.
365 people die each year due to ‘Misadventure during surgical care’
In 2000 25 people died due to ‘Water transport accidents’
And 100000 people die each year from smoking related disease.
You are forgetting one major thing here: Proportion.

99% of the population regularaly use a private car, in comparison, a minute ammount use boats recreationally (where the accidents we are talking about occour).
Whilst only a few people got killed in boats, only a few people use boats, and therefore it is evident that the boating death statistics are going to be significantly lower.

Legislation on driving boats would probably not be a bad idea, if anything it requires more thought than a car, you have to take currents, water depth, wind, the tide, other boats coming at you from all directions, waves etc, into account, in a car traffic is coming from only 2 directions at most (unless you have some very broken traffic lights )
It would be a sensible idea to enforce a minimum level of training & safety equipment on people, but in all honesty it is unlikely to happen.
I would imagine most people on here are sensible, have done some training, wether official or just picking up guidence from others & friends, and do wear lifejackets, but it is the foolish minority who get into trouble that proper safety equipment and training could have prevented. The bigger problem is that they then put other peoples lives at risk when they need bailing out!

Dan
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Old 05 September 2004, 01:32   #49
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Hey Thanks Missus and have reciprocated. See if you going to reach 4 greeny blobs

Dan I couldn't agree more with you!! You earned a greeny from me whatever these greenies worth
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Old 05 September 2004, 04:20   #50
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I'm one of these stupid people who just go out one day and buy a boat, plonk it in the water and zoom off to sea!!! Haven't got any formal RYA powerboating qualifications or navigational qualifications either.

But I'm not that stupid!!!!! I did for the first time ask someone to accompany me out into the busy world of boating. Watched and learnt to see how things are done and am still leaning now! Which is what we all never stop doing!

My point you ask.......Anybody can buy any type of boat and sail it off with no experience. If you're the inherent Idiot that causes accidents, chances are that you can pass the RYA examinations just as well as anyone else.

You don't need to pass any RYA courses on offer to be a safe responsible seaman/woman. If you have a sensible approach to life and care for the life's of others, you and only you can decide what level of seamanship you need.

My RIB is kitted out with all the flares, first aid kit, VHF, and wearing lifejacks is mandatory as a friend of mine found out two weeks ago. Everyone that is inexperienced, at some early stage of my voyages gets a quick tour of the engine controls and spare kill cord is located.

If an inexperienced person approached me now and asked about how you got into the world of boating, I would of course advise that they went on a RYA powerboat course as I don't know their level of competancy, I myself would like a PBII or III and will one day. But in not having these certificates, doesn't make me an unsafe person on the water.

Andy
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