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Old 23 December 2006, 16:52   #31
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Originally Posted by Polwart View Post
There are pro's and con's of both options. (One pro steven missed off his list is price!).

Comparing them is quite logical since they are "marketted" towards similar applications.
I found that the price was about the same for what I wanted - the export price for the Mac 570/115hp Yamaha 4/ (5.7m boat) is about the same as the price Jono is offering an Osprey for, for instance, once you take the VAT off. No idea how the smaller ones compare though.

Mac is partly marketed at people who are fed up with the maintenance liability of gelcoat and tubes and can't be arsed to antifoul. That would be me then

No idea how thick a rib hull is but the 570 hull is 18mm thick and the "tubes" 10mm I think. Knowing how tough a wheely bin is (about 3 or 4 mm thick I reckon) that seems to be quite solid to me.

Turning in to an interesting discussion
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Old 23 December 2006, 17:20   #32
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Originally Posted by BogMonster View Post
I found that the price was about the same for what I wanted - the export price for the Mac 570/115hp Yamaha 4/ (5.7m boat) is about the same as the price Jono is offering an Osprey for, for instance, once you take the VAT off. No idea how the smaller ones compare though.
my experience was Mac were at the top end of this market. (i.e. their competitors were cheaper!) With a new boat the engine is half (or more?) of the cost - so the price savings on the boat are less noticable - but I couldn't have afforded to get a new GRP boat even at the small size I have - so I got a plastic boat (new) for the price of a second hand rib. Might need to add Osprey to my list of potentials then when the time comes - I had assumed it would be more expensive than that.

Quote:
Mac is partly marketed at people who are fed up with the maintenance liability of gelcoat and tubes and can't be arsed to antifoul. That would be me then
I would agree with that - and previously having owned an old wooden boat - time afloat and minimal maintainance cost was a priority to me. Idiot-proof-ness has been useful (I recon I would have cost myself 100's in carelessness this year with a GRP hardboat)

Quote:
Turning in to an interesting discussion
Yes - a bit of thread drift - but hopefully useful interesting all the same.
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Old 23 December 2006, 18:12   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polwart View Post
my experience was Mac were at the top end of this market. (i.e. their competitors were cheaper!) With a new boat the engine is half (or more?) of the cost - so the price savings on the boat are less noticable - but I couldn't have afforded to get a new GRP boat even at the small size I have - so I got a plastic boat (new) for the price of a second hand rib. Might need to add Osprey to my list of potentials then when the time comes - I had assumed it would be more expensive than that.
Link to Jono's ad on another forum (hope that is ok...!) Thought the price was very good and was quite tempted as I do like the look of the Wipermax but it still has tubes and it still needs to be antifouled.

Compared to that the Mac prices (all inc vat for comparison) Julian sent me were:

570 hull with single console and screen 6867
Underfloor tank 899
Yam F115 4 str 8997
Basic electrics pack 298
Single axle trailer 1692
Total 18753

plus you'd want seats, VHF, other electrickery and stuff on top of that so it would come out about the same price I guess, maybe a little more. Engine is way over half the cost of course, the 90 2 stroke is only 5599 which brings it down a lot but I don't want a lawnmower engine on the new boat.
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Old 23 December 2006, 19:18   #34
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I recognise with these issues (my console is fine - but the seat/locker lid is too thin (about half the hull thickness) and flexes slightly under my fat ass. I like to kid myself on that it is like a mini ulman - as I bounce up and down on it! I only have 2 self tappers on my boat for this very reason (they hold the bilge pump bracket in place).
I have seen the smaller boats built out of this stuff and they do seem to be extremely durable, metal fasteners do not seem to like to stay put in it. I guess if they can find a reasonably inexpensive way of welding the plastic parts together without using metal bolts or screws that would go a long way towards curing the problems on boats the size of my friend's Logic.
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Old 23 December 2006, 19:46   #35
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Aluminium or Glass.

My statements are purely personal and if I can assist or guide by them, all the better. I have 25 years experience in this activity, the majority being RIBS. I have operated these boats for the military (worldwide), civilian commercial (worldwide) and leisure. The old addage you get what you pay for in these cases is paramont. It is currently my experience that the financial gap between Glass ribs and aluminium (ali) ribs is closing. On this side of the Ocean, the big scary question of ali is due to the fact that in the range of boats concerned, it is generally a new material to us! There are not that many around, however "watch this space". In my opinion we will all see a vast increase in ali boats in general this side of the Ocean very soon.
From an general operating view, running, cleaning, maintaining, antifouling, prolonging boat life, and resale values, my money is 100% on the ali boat! At the helm, on well manufactured boats, glass and ali, there is no difference. Perhaps the ali boat is slightly ahead regarding maintainance and most certainly performance, due to weights, especially power to weight ratios. Had I the financial resourses and were to allow my imagination to run wild, this would be my ideal boat (RIB). Full aluminium, no question. Approx 10mtr in length. approx 3-3.5mtr beam, full wheelhouse, large single diesel engine around 350hp driven through a decent leg. Not too mush to ask for??? One Company for all to look at is a firm called, Marine Specilaised Technology (MST) Liverpool.
I visited them so time ago (years) and was really impressed with their ali RIBS and general projects. I have since been on one of their vessels at sea and was astounded with the build quality and seakeeping. Hopefully some of this prattle will be of some use. May I wish all on the forum a very Merry Xmas and a sea safe happy New Year.
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Old 25 December 2006, 12:23   #36
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Re aluminum or glass or STAINLESS??

Has anyone yet seen a hull built out of sheet stainless steel? They build all kinds of restaurant equipment out of the stuff, if properly ribbed internally I would think the hull skin could be pretty thin so it would not have to be that heavy. I spent a lot of time in a scrapyard when I was hunting for odds and ends for my boat and they had a lot of stainless scrap. I don't know alot about the alloys commonly available but the scrapyard had quite a bit of thin stainless sheet at times, I handled sheets that were very thin yet extremely stiff, seems to me a talented person with a welder could build a very nice, strong hull out of stainless given talent and tools. I have a friend who owns a steel fabricating co. here in Cleveland, they can and do build almost anything out of metal, much much thicker than stainless sheet, anyone ever seen anything out there?
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Old 25 December 2006, 13:32   #37
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I may have dreamed this but doesn't stainless suffer badly from stress fracturing due to fatigue? Just wonder if it could be a problem on a hull... but a whole hull built of stainless would be damned sexy if it would work
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Old 25 December 2006, 15:23   #38
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You would be able to travel in time as well......
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Old 25 December 2006, 16:12   #39
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Stainless is not as ideal a material as it appears, either.

It is not typically a very stiff material, requiring some amount of thickness to get a decent structural rigidity. That means weight. Alternatively, you could use closer spaced bracing, I suppose, which will mean weight and fabrication labor.

In a saltwater environment, any crevice that traps water breeds aerobic bacteria. These eventually deplete the oxygen, and anaerobic bacteria begin to breed, the by-products of which consist of fairly strong sulfuric acids. The acid then corrodes the SS in the most out-of-the-way places, leading to failure, usually in places where you want it the least. Ways around this are *really* good quality welding, no unwelded joints (i.e. not much bolting of parts), and/or lots of sealant (not ideal as it invariably fails.)

It would make for a pretty boat, though; at least for a while.

Cod: It wasn't the SS that allowed for time travel, rather it was the energy from plutonium, dumped into the flux capacitor, and coupled somehow with 88 mph. (Yeah, I've seen it a few times.) I still wonder if the mirrors on a Delorean will fold up horizontally...

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Old 26 December 2006, 10:21   #40
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Hi Steven. Has LandRover done a deal with Tupperware ?
iT'S THE ONLY WAY I CAN SEE FOR THE DOOR SEALS TO BECOME WATERPROOF
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