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Old 08 June 2005, 05:51   #41
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Thanks Louise. This helps

I attach the diagram.

Bow line - warp - is the Rib's painter

Stern line - warp - is the line attached from the cleat on the A frame to the cleat on the pontoon.

So far so good.

What is confusing to me are the other two lines. To keep the nose from hitting the pontoon, you clearly need the spring rope (as labelled) from the rear cleat on the pontoon to attach to the centre of the rib - we tend to use the seat back on the front pod.

OK so far.

But what does the forward spring line do? Is it necessary in practice? Do you tie it to the front seat back also?

We had three on Saturday. Not four. Not that it would have mattered
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Old 08 June 2005, 06:07   #42
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Bruce some observations:

• I would say that the damage caused has nothing to do the correct/incorrect specification by Solent RIBs and is entirely a function of the fact that you appear to have tied your craft to avoid the underside of the bow bumping on the pontoon but someone else has been thoughtless when they re tied lines post moving their craft. Had you specified an extra layer of hypalon in that area then of course the damage would be to that layer rather than the layer that has been damaged – but it would still be damaged & need repair. In the normal course of events I would say that Solent in no way wrong to advise against doing. I have 4 RIBs only one of which has more protection in this area than yours, they have never been damaged in this way because i) I’ve been lucky & people have retied my craft correctly or ii) they have been moored so as to eliminate the possibility .

• Of course you still need to get it fixed (do so now else it will bug you the whole summer!) and I would recommend Scott at Rib Repair in Brockenhurst. He did an outstanding job on damage to one of our Scorpions and it arguably looks better than it did before the damage.

• Re warps & springs: Warps are the name given to the lines you use to moor the craft – irrespective of whether they are springs or breast lines (the ones running at the ‘front’ or ‘back’ of the craft generally perpendicular to the vessel to the shore/pontoon etc)

• Addressing your question re what the springs do:
o Mentally ‘remove’ the fore and aft breast lines. The craft couldn’t move backwards and forwards (as the springs hold it in position) but the front and rear of the craft would continually move towards and away from the pontoon as they are unsecured
o Now mentally remove the springs and leave the breast lines in situ. If the breast lines are tied at roughly right angles from the craft to the pontoon then the craft can move backwards and forwards along the pontoon but the front and rear remain held the same distance off the pontoon.
o Now put them all on and the combination of the four lines holds the craft snugly in position
Overall I’d say if you moor in the area you did at Cowes (or in the adjacent RIB park at the RedJet) then damage is always a high possibility. Its not your fault & will cost you but is an inevitable part of the joys of ownership. Personally I would cease looking for anyone to be culpable, I’m sure the person who left you poorly tied didn’t mean to so get it fixed & then concentrate on the next fun trip!


Paul

PS: We all damage craft, we all learn from it - its part of the learning experience
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Old 08 June 2005, 06:09   #43
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Originally Posted by Scary Des
No, you are missing the point JW advised Bruce that he needed more protection in this area and Solent Ribs said he didn’t therefore Solent have some responsibility Des
Sorry, I am not missing the point - I concede that the manufacturer should have done something in this area to minimise the damage cause, BUT, you cannot hold a manufacturer responsible if through lack of experience (whatever) your boat gets damaged.
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Old 08 June 2005, 06:16   #44
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Thanks Paul. I am not really looking for anyone to be culpable.

In line with a series of posts about 'things which have gone wrong for me', I am just hoping that by airing my misfortunes or cock-ups, and getting good advice about how to manage in the futuure, someone else will avoid grief.

Thanks for the clarity on mooring lines and uses.

Is it the case that if, with a 6.5M rib, the bow and stern lines are at a 45 degree angle in front and behind the rib, in normal situations (minimal wash, shelter) only those two lines are necessary? Or should I always use four?
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Old 08 June 2005, 06:50   #45
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Originally Posted by ct01
Sorry, I am not missing the point - I concede that the manufacturer should have done something in this area to minimise the damage cause, BUT, you cannot hold a manufacturer responsible if through lack of experience (whatever) your boat gets damaged.
Yeh but had they listened the damage would have been less regardless of how that damage was caused Des
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Old 08 June 2005, 07:04   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucehawsker
....Is it the case that if, with a 6.5M rib, the bow and stern lines are at a 45 degree angle in front and behind the rib, in normal situations (minimal wash, shelter) only those two lines are necessary? Or should I always use four?
The answer is that it depends if you are at the hard in Newtown you only need a painter but in cowes where the tide and current is a bit more interesting use the lot.
One good test before leaving the boat is to push it hard with your foot and see how it moves. If once you have stop pushing the boat comes back to the desired position all is OK but if it stays where you pushed it adjust your springs. This is difficult to explain well and really it is a matter of experience to know when it is right Des
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Old 08 June 2005, 07:16   #47
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Bruce
Just picked up on this thread. Sorry to hear of the latest part of your learning curve.

To answer one of your earlier questions, a "V" shaped bow fender may be a useful purchase. It dangles over the nose and stops the bow hitting the pontoon too hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucehawsker
Is it the case that if, with a 6.5M rib, the bow and stern lines are at a 45 degree angle in front and behind the rib, in normal situations (minimal wash, shelter) only those two lines are necessary? Or should I always use four?
The mooring cleats on the pontoon/quay will never line up with your boat. One of Sods many laws. If you are leaving the boat unattended, then use springs, always. I take springs as far forward and aft as I can. i.e. from the bow to the pontoon near the stearn and vica versa.

One more point. If you are rafted more than 3 out put additional shore lines from you, over or round the inside boats, to the pontoon. This lets someone on the quay hold your boat securly while those inside slip out. DO NOT rely on anyone re-tying you boat securly. Go and check it regularly. Its a pain but worth doing. Remember how it was done at Yarmouth earlier this year (just before incident 1 & 2).

Old sea dog story. Many years ago I was doing Cowes week in a 32 footer. We were rafted 5 out of 7 on the outside (channel side) of the outer pontoon at West Cowes Marina. At 0730 a Frenchman, 2 out, left. He cast the 5 yachts outside him adrift. You should have seen the panic.
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Old 08 June 2005, 08:11   #48
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Wouldn't mooring stern in avoid this problem???
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Old 08 June 2005, 08:39   #49
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Wouldn't mooring stern in avoid this problem???
Yes and no. You could potentially damage your cones and your engine casing. I think the problem with Cowes is the wash, the use of springs and lots of fenders are the only solution.

Alex
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Old 08 June 2005, 09:28   #50
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So Cowes is a problem. Anywhere else in the Solent region a particular problem?
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