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Old 04 November 2012, 06:02   #21
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Poly, do you wear a life jacket?
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Old 04 November 2012, 06:19   #22
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They manage to enforce marine laws it in the US, and DUI in a boat affects you car driving licence too. (at least in NY)
Because they have a large Coastguard with enforcement powers, boats, personnel and other such things that cost huge amounts to the tax payer. As a result they also have boat registration in most (all?) states etc with fees / taxes as appropriate.

Is there any evidence that despite their 'greater enforcement' that fatality rates are lower?
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Old 04 November 2012, 06:24   #23
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Poly, do you wear a life jacket?
Not when I'm cycling or walking!

I wear a PFD or Lifejacket when on my 'RIB', when sailing dinghies, when kayaking/canoeing. I didn't when windsurfing this summer but I was mostly in my depth.

If your next question is do I think people should normally wear a lifejacket / pfd when ribbing? Then the answer is also yes. But if your question is do I think making it mandatory would improve safety / significant reduce fatalities? The answer in no.
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Old 04 November 2012, 06:32   #24
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Because they have a large Coastguard with enforcement powers, boats, personnel and other such things that cost huge amounts to the tax payer. As a result they also have boat registration in most (all?) states etc with fees / taxes as appropriate.

Is there any evidence that despite their 'greater enforcement' that fatality rates are lower?
So do you have a sliding scale on how much a life is worth, does it matter if they are related or not, or is it fixed fee?
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Old 04 November 2012, 06:41   #25
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Not when I'm cycling or walking!
Petty
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I wear a PFD or Lifejacket when on my 'RIB', when sailing dinghies, when kayaking/canoeing. I didn't when windsurfing this summer but I was mostly in my depth.
Windsurfing, if you are not a beginner, a Life jacket can be a hindrance, if you are expecting to go in the water then you are usually wearing a wetsuit (buoyancy and warmth) and are with a large floaty thing which (as long as the rig is tethered to the board) wont go that far.

If you do wear a jacket when its sensible to do so, then legislation or not you are not one that needs persuasion, education or penalty.
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Old 04 November 2012, 07:31   #26
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So do you have a sliding scale on how much a life is worth, does it matter if they are related or not, or is it fixed fee?
Essentially its 'fixed fee'. I don't know what the number is - but everybody has a figure although most people won't admit it. Take some hypothetical questions. Let imagine that I could guarantee that if everyone paid 10p more in road tax a year we could save 10 lives (e.g. through greater police presence, improved road surfaces, signage etc). I guess a lot of people would say it was worth it. Now if I told you adding 100 to you road tax would save 1 life, would you pay it? What if it was 10,000... etc.

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Petty
I made the point for a reason: more people drown when doing those activities than boating.

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Windsurfing, if you are not a beginner, a Life jacket can be a hindrance, if you are expecting to go in the water then you are usually wearing a wetsuit (buoyancy and warmth) and are with a large floaty thing which (as long as the rig is tethered to the board) wont go that far.
I can assure you I am a beginner! But I made an educated personal risk assessment after discussing with the instructors. If I had been on my own, out my depth, a rocky/hard bottom, cold water, etc I would probably have reached a different conclusion. Understanding the risk rather than blindly assuming that 5L of PU foam is going to save my life is key. Interestingly the difference between a windsurf and a topper dinghy is very slight yet experiences sailors and windsurfers often arrive at different conclusions.
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If you do wear a jacket when its sensible to do so, then legislation or not you are not one that needs persuasion, education or penalty.
But you are missing the point; legislation will have little impact on those who persistently refuse to wear a LJ, because they will still refuse (with no enforcement) - just as happens with seatbelts but even worse as it will be even less likely you get caught. In the meantime the people who were already following common sense get caught up in bureaucracy etc. or get prosecuted for technical breaches when their personal risk assessment said it was fine.

I have absolutely no issue with properly informed education. I wouldn't even object to legislation that LJ's must be carried for all on board (easier to enforce at slipways / marinas etc).
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Old 04 November 2012, 07:39   #27
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I'm all for individual choices , but its hard enough to get people to carry things let alone wear a lj.

I think it says volumes that in any emergency situation the Cg will always ask if persons are wearing a lj.

Of course when I anchor and want to swim off the boat...will I need to wear one ?

No excuse not to wear one for general boating really.
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Old 04 November 2012, 07:56   #28
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I'm against compulsory wearing. When we're working up the river they are a pain in the arse. Laying on a pontoon trying to undo shackles etc they get in the way. Auto ones go off and manual ones can get the pull cord caught unless you tuck it in and neither are comfortable
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Old 04 November 2012, 08:03   #29
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Sorry guys but your all dreaming!

Try asking a rower to wear a lifejacket - you'll get slotted! They hate them and refuse to wear them. The Chief Harbour Master at the PLA couldn't get them to wear them for the Diamond Jubilee Pageant so I think e-petition or not, they won't wear them!

I'm very pro lifejackets but this isn't going to happen.

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Old 04 November 2012, 08:14   #30
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Sorry guys but your all dreaming!

Try asking a rower to wear a lifejacket - you'll get slotted! They hate them and refuse to wear them. The Chief Harbour Master at the PLA couldn't get them to wear them for the Diamond Jubilee Pageant so I think e-petition or not, they won't wear them!

I'm very pro lifejackets but this isn't going to happen.

Chris
Spot on Chris
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