Don't take the sea for granted

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by pathalla

... they get so excited out on the boat, it just makes it all good...

This past summer, my youngest drove our boat from the ramp, down the harbour, and docked it in front of our place. I told him later that he was the only person to have driven that boat alone, other than me. He beamed for an hour. Kids and boats go together, which I suppose makes this story that much more sad...

About 25 years ago I was managing a resort in Tobermory. Six local kids took a boat out on the lake one evening with a case of beer. One of the kids was the son of one of my employees and a friend. At one point, they were stopped by the police, who cut them some slack since the case wasn't opened (yet). The confiscated the beer and sent the kids on their way. Later that night a storm came up. The overturned boat was found the next morning. Five bodies were recovered over the next day. The last one has never been found. That was my friend's 16 year old son. Those parents have never been the same.

[pathalla]

Originally Posted by Stoo

This past summer, my youngest drove our boat from the ramp, down the harbour, and docked it in front of our place. I told him later that he was the only person to have driven that boat alone, other than me. He beamed for an hour. Kids and boats go together, which I suppose makes this story that much more sad...

Humans are just not wired to deal with the loss of their offspring, it is just wrong!!!
Relating to your son, really hard to say who was prouder, him or you??

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Beam

….So lets put it too rest by saying to the loved ones, We are sorry to hear about your loss.

Jimmy

Isn’t that a touch presumptious? “we are sorry…”.
If they were teenage yobos who paid the price during an act of maliciousness, I would certainly view their actions differently from a couple of kids just having a lark, but I don’t know the truth anymore than you do.

Originally Posted by Stoo

.....
Even if this kid was a terror, that doesn't excuse you. Any child's death is cause for great sadness.

.....

Is that so? Don't you think that shows a certain naivety? Take for example this article on two teenagers of the same age who tortured an innocent man in Reading http://new.reading-guide.co.uk/cgi-bin/bnews.cgi?3456 If you look around, you’ll find a lot of this type of violence where teenagers (and younger) are literally running riot and inflicting fear and violence on all manner of folk. Generally they start of with petty theft and escalate to violence when the society that they live in fails to stop them…and in that I include their parents. Would you grieve if these two, in this article, came to an unpleasant end? I am damned sure I wouldn’t.

Originally Posted by pathalla

..... The parents and family of this child and the people who knew him have got to be sick at heart over this, .....

You’d hope so, wouldn’t you? If they are just a couple of "Jack the Lad" types, then possibly yes but in a society where we can see younger and younger people becoming criminals and violent offenders, I often wonder at what point the parents have abdicated responsibility or indeed, started the child off down that path….

Originally Posted by pathalla

Humans are just not wired to deal with the loss of their offspring, it is just wrong!!!

Look around you in any Social Services home (or whatever you equivalent is) and see the violence , abuse and suffering inflicted upon children by their own parents. You can't understand how they can do it, but they do. So you can't assume that every parent will grieve the loss of a child.

[prairie tuber]

Jono,

Your stupidity astounds me. Two guys finally put up highly intelligent posts about this incident, and you jump in to attack them for being 'presumptious' because they dared to suggest the loss of child's life (even if he was up to mischief) is a terrible thing . Of course if a cat or dog were also aboard, then you probably would have considered to be a terrible thing. But because it was merely a human being, who probably doesn't meet your standards, your attitude is pretty much 'oh well'.

What an idiot.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

Jono,

Your stupidity astounds me. Two guys finally put up highly intelligent posts about this incident, and you jump in to attack them for being 'presumptious' because they dared to suggest the loss of child's life (even if he was up to mischief) is a terrible thing . Of course if a cat or dog were also aboard, then you probably would have considered to be a terrible thing. But because it was merely a human being, who probably doesn't meet your standards, your attitude is pretty much 'oh well'.

What an idiot.

If you had read the post properly, you would have assertained that it was not an "attack" and if it came over as such to those who I have quoted, I apologise to them.

All I am doing is pointing out that not every child is an innocent who must should be mourned and not every parent has love for their offspring.

Most human beings have choices in life, the animals you kill for sport do not have that same luxury.

[codprawn]

Maybe our American posters don't quite realise exactly what Tony Blair has turned this country into - and this is NOT me being political - it's a FACT.

The reason people feel like this in Britain today is because this government has set out to be all seeing and all powerfull. The glorious state will look after you from the cradle to the grave - you as a citizen must NOT have any freedom to do as you like - if you have a problem the state will look after you. More cameras - more people on the DNA database - ID cards - number plate readers so they can see what sort of rubbish you take to the local tip(seriously).

Blair's government has passed over 12,000 new laws since they came into power. the only people who respect these laws are the decent people. The thugs just laugh at it. They can do as they like because they know the law will only punish the people who respect it.

A mate of mine owns a chain of 24hr petrol stations - in the last few years he has seen a total breakdown in law and order. The worst culprit are the kids aged 10 to 17 - they will openly walk into the shop in the middle of the afternoon and just help themselves in front of everyone including the CCTV cameras.

Why do these kids behave like this? Simple - because they can!!! They know full well that people are to terrified of getting into trouble to lift a finger against them.

Ask most people these days and they say we need tougher sentences - more laws etc etc. It's all crap - we need to go back to what it was like 30 yrs ago - simple!!!

[pathalla]

Originally Posted by Jono

If you had read the post properly, you would have assertained that it was not an "attack" and if it came over as such to those who I have quoted, I apologise to them.

All I am doing is pointing out that not every child is an innocent who must should be mourned and not every parent has love for their offspring.

Most human beings have choices in life, the animals you kill for sport do not have that same luxury.

Jono, I would agree that not all parents love their children, there are always exceptions to the rule, point taken. I would think the comments by myself and others reflect the majority of people in our civilized "western" society, the rule, not the exception. I believe my comments reflect the morals of most if not all on this forum (boaters great people) and as such were crafted for the audience at hand. If you have the time invested in raising a child, nuturing, teaching, protecting, playing, loving, etc.etc. and end up losing that child? Could there be anything worse? No. Yes, not all parents love or parent correctly, and yes not all children behave according to societies laws and conventions, but most do and my comments, and I think Stoos, Jimmys and Prairie tubers reflect the morals and values of modern society.

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Maybe our American posters don't quite realise exactly what Tony Blair has turned this country into - and this is NOT me being political - it's a FACT.

The reason people feel like this in Britain today is because this government has set out to be all seeing and all powerfull. The glorious state will look after you from the cradle to the grave - you as a citizen must NOT have any freedom to do as you like - if you have a problem the state will look after you. More cameras - more people on the DNA database - ID cards - number plate readers so they can see what sort of rubbish you take to the local tip(seriously).

Blair's government has passed over 12,000 new laws since they came into power. the only people who respect these laws are the decent people. The thugs just laugh at it. They can do as they like because they know the law will only punish the people who respect it.

A mate of mine owns a chain of 24hr petrol stations - in the last few years he has seen a total breakdown in law and order. The worst culprit are the kids aged 10 to 17 - they will openly walk into the shop in the middle of the afternoon and just help themselves in front of everyone including the CCTV cameras.

Why do these kids behave like this? Simple - because they can!!! They know full well that people are to terrified of getting into trouble to lift a finger against them.

Ask most people these days and they say we need tougher sentences - more laws etc etc. It's all crap - we need to go back to what it was like 30 yrs ago - simple!!!

Here Here

[Jono]

Originally Posted by pathalla

…. I would think the comments by myself and others reflect the majority of people in our civilized "western" society, the rule, not the exception..

You'd hope that this was the case, but in the "modern, civilised, Western society" we live in, the rise in violent crime and lawlessness amongst the teens and pre-teens must, surely, indicate a rise in the number of "parents" and I use the word loosely, who really don't give a fig about their offspring?

As an aside, Prairie Tuber's comments reflect nothing but ill feeling towards me because I don’t agree with his slaughtering of Bears for fun. They have nothing whatsoever to do with the thread......

[ribit]

Im shocked your so with it mr codd, many people's ideals have changed thanks to good old blair, having worked with the public with shop's since my early 20's i.e. last 20 year's, things are very different now. there are so many things that make you despair...case 1 of so many lost count... local yob around 16 goes into the garage next door to steal off the old boy working there and hit's him for not allowing him to steal stuff, nice guy mate of mine catches known yob outside, yob with his normal posse of kids, mate grabs him till police arrive, unfortunatly fight breaks out yob gets right uppercut, out for the count, police turn up listen to all the evidence and arrest the good guy's for bodily harm against yob's, we managed to put pressure on yob's parents, in the end yob drop's charges against the good guy's...what a country........cant belive it as I type this taxi driver comes to the counter says he is very upset a bunch of 13-15year old yobs have been coming round his house and banging very loudly on the glass after midnight police could do nothing, so he waits up and gets one young yob, pushes him off his ground police are called and he gets into trouble for pushing the youth of his land...no wounder he is upset

[Aidan]

I didnt get the news here guys but I guess the little lad bought it...
This is most regretful and sad, no matter how you cut it or what you say.

Lets get back to ribbing and hope his parents never get to see these pages.
They have enough to contend with regardless.
May the Lord have mercy on his sole as I am sure he will..

[Nos4r2]

Unfortunately Codders and Ribit are all too right.

While I realise my attitude towards thieving scumbags in general is partly to blame for the arguing going on here, I challenge any of the RibNet US members to live here for any length of time without developing views tending towards mine.

If I wake up to a thief in my house waving a carving knife at me I can't shoot him. I can't even hit him with a baseball bat unless I carefully examine quite how hard the force is necessary to stop him without undue harm.
If he's injured in any way shape or form I can expect to be arrested (even sued if he hurts himself climbing over my fence into the garden-but that's an aside) and charged with assault if I can't PROVE that he intended to hurt/kill me with that carving knife. We don't even have the right to react in self-defence anymore.

If the kids in question were genuinely good kids that 'slipped' just that once and the parents did their job properly then I apologise and feel for them.
BUT...

Kids out at 2am wearing hoodies and tracksuit bottoms stealing a boat and going out in horrendous conditions sounds far too much like thugs that have grown up thinking they are untouchable no matter how dangerously they behave-and that their parents have done bugger all to steer them in the right direction. If that's the case then hopefully the death of one will put the other on the right track.

[Limey Linda]

Good post Nos. I agree. Thanks for the reminder, I need to clean my 45.
L.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by codprawn

and this is NOT me being political

look it up... http://www.answers.com/political&r=67

[TubrOnCrakberry]

Originally Posted by Jono

As an aside, Prairie Tuber's comments reflect nothing but ill feeling towards me because I dont agree with his slaughtering of Bears for fun. They have nothing whatsoever to do with the thread......

My disgust for you is not because you oppose bear hunting. My disgust for you is because you of your troglodite - like reactions to those who do something you do not approve of. Whether it is an activity that is legitimately objectionable (such as stealing boats) or whether it is something you perceive to be objectionable (yet actually positive and necessary - as bear hunting was proven to be in previous threads), your imbecillic reaction is to call for the death of the offending individual. That kind of behavior may fly in places that are loaded with nutcaes such as Iran, but it has no place in a civilized society.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by TubrOnCrakberry

My disgust for you is not because you oppose bear hunting. My disgust for you is because you of your troglodite - like reactions to those who do something you do not approve of. Whether it is an activity that is legitimately objectionable (such as stealing boats) or whether it is something you perceive to be objectionable (yet actually positive and necessary - as bear hunting was proven to be in previous threads), your imbecillic reaction is to call for the death of the offending individual. That kind of behavior may fly in places that are loaded with nutcaes such as Iran, but it has no place in a civilized society.

Unless I'm missing a point here nobody has called for the death of anyone on this thread-merely pointed out that stupid actions result in fatal consequences. (If you don't believe me on that one get someone to breathe water for half an hour)

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Polwart

look it up... http://www.answers.com/political&r=67

On THIS occasion I don't think I was being political - merely pointing out the way Britain is today - as the government runs this country and has done for quite some time now I think it's only fair to point the blame at them!!!

[Jono]

Originally Posted by TubrOnCrakberry

My disgust for you is not because you oppose bear hunting. My disgust for you is because you of your troglodite - like reactions to those who do something you do not approve of. Whether it is an activity that is legitimately objectionable (such as stealing boats) or whether it is something you perceive to be objectionable (yet actually positive and necessary - as bear hunting was proven to be in previous threads), your imbecillic reaction is to call for the death of the offending individual. That kind of behavior may fly in places that are loaded with nutcaes such as Iran, but it has no place in a civilized society.

Well, I'd love to pass the time of day with you.. but you're proving to be a prize winning prick without any further input...

[tommycrf450]

I have just been reading through this post and some of you out there really need to get a grip. The boys nicked a rowing boat for a bit of fun for god sake! Its hardly the crime of the century. If you haven't done anything a little mischievous in your teenage days then you must have led a really sheltered life! Some of your comments make you sound like pretty horrible people yourselves. You know nothing about this but seem to just assume. As i say, GET A GRIP!!!!

[NautiAndNice]

Have just read through this whole thread and I can see both sides of the argument - albeit that they've been presented in fairly extreme tones.

Originally Posted by tommycrf450

The boys nicked a rowing boat for a bit of fun for god sake! Its hardly the crime of the century.

I'm all for kids having a bit of fun, but I'd personally draw the line at calling this "fun". These kids (14yo's) nicked this boat at 2am on what was widely publicised and forecast to be probably the roughest night of the year. I'm not sure what "fun" they imagined they could have in a rowing boat in a predicted F11 in the middle of the night? It was plain stupidity.

The most worrying aspect in my opinion of this act of alleged "fun" was the blatent lack of thought of the implications, (safety, social and financial), this act would have on others. These kids spared no thought for the RNLI, Coastguard, Police, Coast Rescue Teams personnel or helicopter crew that needed to be scrambled that night. Placing all these individuals at risk on such a rough night (not to mention the financial cost of this operation) IS certainly a crime in my opinion.