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Old 09 December 2006, 03:49   #31
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Sorry for the misunderstanding

What I mean is I can't see fuel suppliers having to bring in two different pumps white and red leisure use and commercial use .
Keep existing pumps and the commercial users will have to claim the duty back as we do now on our petrol boats.
Hope that explains it abit better
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Old 09 December 2006, 04:13   #32
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That would mean no red diesel, and all the pumps switching to white. That would definitely be the "less bad" situation, as there would still be good availability.

If, however, they keep red diesel for commercial users but don't allow it for leisure use it would be a much more difficult situation.

I haven't yet seen any firm indication of which way it would go. Have you found any more information?

John
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Old 09 December 2006, 06:45   #33
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I didn't say they would get rid of them. Already a lot of people keep their boats in France or Spain etc to save money - the price rise of diesel will force many more to do the same.

I wonder why all the people who campaigned against the tax tried so hard if it will have no effect? Bit like the speed limit on Windmere

I have quite a few friends who are very wealthy - none of them like parting with money if they don't have to - they already feel that they pay more than enough in tax.

Of course what will probably happen is there there will be a huge juimp in the number of boats that are chartered.

A typical Gin palace can use 150L an hour - 3x more fuel WILL make a big difference - an extra 1400 for a weekend's cruising.

Boats are a luxury item - cars are essential.
It will effect individuals without doubt, but the effect on the 'marine' industry, in my view will be minimal. Your wealthy mates might be so pee'd off as to sell their boats but,the guys that buy the boats will have factored into the cost of ownership the price of fuel therefore the industry goes on. The fuel supply guys might have to make some infastructure investments.
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Old 09 December 2006, 06:53   #34
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On the subject of 'mates'. A mate of mine bought a new Searay 21ft bowrider diesel inboard last year. My advice was not to, as this banning of red was always on the horizon. That particular type of boat is not good as a diesel. The lump is heavy and underpowered with a sluggish pull-out compared to a petrol equivalent. The only advantage it had (cheap fuel) is about to go, so I reckon he's now left with a pup.
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Old 09 December 2006, 08:01   #35
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The government will want an easy system where it gets its wedge, now, what we might see soon is a two tier road fund tax reclaim scheme starting. Top tier max reclaim for commercial business operators second tier for leisure users who dont take their boats on the road - sorry Gibbs aquada owners you're shafted on diesel or petrol!
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Old 09 December 2006, 08:23   #36
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That would mean no red diesel, and all the pumps switching to white. That would definitely be the "less bad" situation, as there would still be good availability.

If, however, they keep red diesel for commercial users but don't allow it for leisure use it would be a much more difficult situation.

I haven't yet seen any firm indication of which way it would go. Have you found any more information?

John
Unless the gov subsidies the installation I think you can forget the two tank senario. thats without the extra space a lot of marinas need. something weighing 10 ten tonnes just can't be taken down the esso station..the only way is for one pump. com reclaiming.
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Old 09 December 2006, 08:31   #37
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On the subject of 'mates'. A mate of mine bought a new Searay 21ft bowrider diesel inboard last year. My advice was not to, as this banning of red was always on the horizon. That particular type of boat is not good as a diesel. The lump is heavy and underpowered with a sluggish pull-out compared to a petrol equivalent. The only advantage it had (cheap fuel) is about to go, so I reckon he's now left with a pup.
I can see the whole debate about bio-diesel coming up again. Not for GP's as it's not realistic for big boats logistically,but if your mate knows the rocal chinareeze resason, he could see if he could put something together with them. (apparently you can knock up a machine to do the mixing out of an old pallet and some staples) The smell is great, just like getting the munchee's after a few sherberts.
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Old 09 December 2006, 08:51   #38
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I can see the whole debate about bio-diesel coming up again. Not for GP's as it's not realistic for big boats logistically,but if your mate knows the rocal chinareeze resason, he could see if he could put something together with them. (apparently you can knock up a machine to do the mixing out of an old pallet and some staples) The smell is great, just like getting the munchee's after a few sherberts.
Take all that chip oil stuff with a pinch of salt and a dash of vinegar. I tried to run a BMW 2.5TDI on Kerosene once, it was hopeless. Had to wind it over for ages to get it to start and it was pretty flat once running. Why do oil companies spend millions developing diesels when chip oil will do? A 2cyl Petter might be OK with non-diesel oils but, I wouldn't be putting it in a new hitech thing where a replacement pump is 2k.
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Old 09 December 2006, 20:37   #39
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Take all that chip oil stuff with a pinch of salt and a dash of vinegar. I tried to run a BMW 2.5TDI on Kerosene once, it was hopeless. Had to wind it over for ages to get it to start and it was pretty flat once running. Why do oil companies spend millions developing diesels when chip oil will do? A 2cyl Petter might be OK with non-diesel oils but, I wouldn't be putting it in a new hitech thing where a replacement pump is 2k.
You are right there , my mate tried to run his wifes car and his van on chip oil , it ran reasonably well , but cost him a new diesel pump on both vehicles within 6 months . Maybe it works with a proper conversion but then there is the fitting cost , like LPG ,
I think the problem is mineral and vegetable oils don't mix properly and form deposits in the pump and engine that destroy it . Was always the case with 2 stroke bikes , you couldn't change from castrol R back to mineral oil without flushing out all the old stuff .
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