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Old 30 October 2002, 09:35   #31
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I don't think Hugo should be stating how much he pays for articles, after all it's his business. In general most financial transactions are kept confidential and obviously the rate is variable and negotiable, depemding on exerience, content, appeal and I guess attraction to advertisers.
I agree. I spoke to Hugo BEFORE I did the article, which involved a day out with the photographer, we discussed the content. Having had preliminary approval, orft I jolly well went and did it. Then I submitted it for approval. Having seen the article and the photos Hugo contacted me and THEN we discussed money.

This is fair enough. Hugo has the option to take a look and assess the value of the article. He can vary his offer depending on content, photos and the 'name' of the writer. Who the heck am I? No one in the boating world knows me. My name on the front won't help Hugo sell any copies (my photo would sell a few to the ladies though!) [Oh yes, and who do you think you are kidding Hart] (Bloomin' Davison in my reply again). He has to take a gamble. I could have refused his offer, he could have refused the article. We came to a mutualy agreeable arrangement.

Also in a glossy colour magazine, the photos are very important. I was able to supply good quality photos as well (thanks Natalie). This again will affect the 'value' of the article.

Now, I must say that when all this started I had NEVER seen RI, and I did state this in my contributions. Now I have read a couple of issues. I can tell you that I thought it looked very good. There is certainly a lot of hard work goes into getting it together.

I think that there is scope for articles about smaller RIBs and SIBs. Hugo agrees. So, I'll put my thinking cap on and see about doing some more. But, again I will put an idea together then discuss it with Hugo. If he thinks it sounds the sort of article they want I'll go ahead and do it.

Why the apparent obsession with how much RI pay for contributions? How much do 'Horse & Hound' pay? How about 'Yachting Monthly'? Who cares and why?

Keith (today RIB International, tomorrow SIB International) Hart
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Old 30 October 2002, 10:08   #32
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Originally posted by Keith Hart


Who the heck am I? No one in the boating world knows me.

Don't you believe it! I was talking with a ribber I met last week down on Shell island. We were chatting about ribs in general when he asked me if I knew that "w****r Hart from Brummigen".

Your fame is spreading already.

David The Dook.
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Old 30 October 2002, 10:14   #33
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Originally posted by Keith Hart


Why the apparent obsession with how much RI pay for contributions? How much do 'Horse & Hound' pay? How about 'Yachting Monthly'? Who cares and why?

Keith (today RIB International, tomorrow SIB International) Hart
Keith, In my case its not an obsession but I do feel strongly that anyone contributing to a commercial publication should be paid for their efforts and paid fairly. The impression HMS and a few others have given (to me at least) is that all us jolly Rib and Sibsters should support RI by contributing for the good of Ribbing as a whole. Which considering that RI is how HMS and co earn their crust is rather unfair. A very different proposition than contributing to rib.net or Riblines, neither of which you are charged to read.

Absolutely agree that the fee paid is a matter between you and HMS only!

Cheers,
Alan
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Old 30 October 2002, 13:03   #34
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Don't you believe it! I was talking with a ribber I met last week down on Shell island. We were chatting about ribs in general when he asked me if I knew that "w****r Hart from Brummigen".
You've been speaking to Davison again, haven't you David?

Alan, make sure everyone you know buys a copy of the Jan/Feb RI. Then their circulation will go up and I can say it was because of my article. They they will ask me to do more!

Keith (your most obedient and humble servant) Hart
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Old 30 October 2002, 19:20   #35
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Personally I'm tending towards agreeing with both sides here. The fee paid should really be kept confidential, but the author should be given at least a rough figure before they actually put the work into the article. This way, they know before hand whether or not the amount they are going to be paid is what they would consider to be fair, and if it isn't, they can either go elsewhere straight away, or save themselves the effort.
Also agreed that the fee should vary somewhat (though not immensely) based upon writing experience/skill of the author. After all, someone's first ever article is probably going to need a lot more editing done by the magazine staff and won't be up to the standard of someone that does this sort of thing regularly, and this should be reflected in the fee. Not totally agreed on the fee being higher for a known name, unless the quality of the article is higher. Fee should relate to quality.
Again, a higher fee should also be paid when useable photographs are included, as this saves on costs for the magazine.

But I am also agreed with John about Hugo not responding. As he did start this thread, it would be nice to see him checking up on it and commenting regularly, as again he is giving the impression that he's not really that bothered about it.

But, having said all of that, I am willing to write an article for RI if they show any interest in the idea. So tomorrow I shall try to find the contact info that Hugo providing a while back, and I shall give him a ring and discuss the idea with him, and then, if he is interested, I shall start to work on it. But then I shall also do as Keith here has done, and keep any information on the fee confidential. I shall, however, state whether or not I deem the fee to be fair and adequate, which should be obvious by whether I go ahead and allow RI to use the article.

Matt
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Old 30 October 2002, 20:40   #36
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JK and all I absolutely agree with the comments about keeping the debate alive and well in this forum and keeping Hugo in the loop. I felyt that the concentration on the fee was a path to exclusion,


Narked that seems a very sensible idea, you can always practice by writing an article for here.

cheers
Stuart
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Old 31 October 2002, 03:35   #37
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I deem the fee to be fair and adequate, which should be obvious by whether I go ahead and allow RI to use the article.
The point here is how the fee compares to that paid by other magazines in the same bracket. Also we are talking about the fee paid to an 'amateur' as opposed to a professional journalist.

The staff who work for Black Hart Productions are paid a fee based on their contribution to the act or particular theme evening. They have different rates. If I take on a cast member who is unknown and untried, their fee will be a lot less than the pros who have worked for us for a long time. Sometimes we use a 'known' act. They are established and we negotiate a fee in accordance with their 'pulling power'.

I do not go about advertising their fees to all and sundry.

We do a lot of work for entertainment agencies. They ring us up and tell us about the gig, then they ask how much we would charge. I try to wheedle out of them what is the most they will pay. They try to wheedle out of me what is the least I will work for. We come to some agreement, they say they will check with the client. Then the client decides whether it's within their budget or not. If it is, we get the job. If it isn't, we dont.

After all the years we have been doing this we know pretty much what we can charge. We know what the 'going rate' is. We charge extra for gigs in London for example (it gives us Brummies a lot of pleasure screwing the cockneys this way!). Our regular agencies know what our fee is likely to be.

But back to writing articles again. I do the occasional article for various magic magazines. I very often do this by way of a press release. In that case I do not receive a fee. What I get is FREE advertising for the 'mail order' side of our business or free publicity for the performance side. The magazine is happy. I am happy.

You do not have to write for nothing (no reward of any sort), you do not have to write in the first place.

As I said in my email Matt (buy a SIB, buy a SIB). Have a go, but don't expect to get paid the same as Kate Aidie would!

Keith (I am being informal today)
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Old 31 October 2002, 11:03   #38
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Well yeah, I'm not exactly expecting a huge fee. But then I'd also be more than happy to write stuff for RIBnet for free (there you go JK, some free content if you can think of anything I could do ). My point is similar to that made by others, RI is a commercial venture, RIBnet isn't. If others will be reading the article for free, then I'll write it for free. If it's going to cost someone to read it, then I'm not just going to hand it over to the publishers free of charge. But I'm not likely to expect a large fee for it, for a number of reasons, being my age, and my complete lack of experience.

Matt (yes yes I will buy a SIB when I find one) Brown
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