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Old 19 April 2008, 11:43   #11
Country: UK - England
Town: Beverley
Boat name: TBA
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Length: 6m +
Engine: Tohatsu 8Hp
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Originally Posted by Roy Smith View Post
Iam not ranting
I am just making the point that most harbor masters will not know who owns what boat and if indeed they are capable of using it.
They are asking for insurance (I think) to match up owners to boats
the point being if you had to registrar your boat by law then the reg number
that you would have to display would give all the details the harbour master needed and
you probably would not get stopped.
Most insurances i have seen ask if you have Rya 1 & 2 etc.
Sorry if its sounds like a rant,just seams that in this time of having to have a license for really stupid little things, it seams strange that you could buy a
60 ft Sun seeker and take it to sea with no insurance or qualifications to helm it.
The point is, rightly or wrongly, (different debate) that at this moment in time under law, there is no need to register boats or owners, no requirement to insure them other than on certain (most) inland waterways, and I don't think (might be wrong) that the harbour master in question can stop a vessel transitting the harbour if it does not have insurance.

I don't want to say where this is or turn it into a personal tirade against the location in question, this was supposed to be a more 'in principle' discussion - I don't like the idea of having my insureance held on record when I don't think that there is any justification for doing so other than documenting river users.

Also I think that the liberties that we do have in this country should be protected for such a time as we do have them, and not be allowed to be infringed by officials who would like to see the law changed to suit their mandate - if the people responsible believe that this information should be colected and held then change the law first, they shouldn't make unillateral demands because they don'l like the current rules!


"I'm not lost, I'm exploring...."
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Old 19 April 2008, 12:09   #12
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Country: UK - Scotland
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Make: FunYak
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MMSI: 235089819
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Originally Posted by roohairy View Post
The harbour is on a tidal river, which extends well beyond the harbour limits and is still tidal.
Yes but there are many tidal waters which are covered by local bye laws.
The harbour is used by a handfull of commercial vessels only and the management seems to be very anti leisure use -
quite possibly - you presumably contribute little to the costs but add to their complications
demanding copies of insurance to hold on file I believe is beyond reasonable.
actually doesn't seem at all unreasonable to me. Some HA require you to get permission to transit their area via VHF beforehand (for every trip/movement), others have fairly strict speed limits. If the rules require you to have insurance, being able to demonstrate that is hardly an unreasonable request.

Insurance is a question of scale - my 22' boat is insured, my 8' rowing boat is not! How many uninsured tenders are there in the UK, should insurance be compulsory for these also? How about canoes?
well it will depend on the H.A. byelaws. Often insurance is expected only for vessels of a certain size or power driven vesels over certain HP. Actually your rowing boat has the potential to cause a large ship to take avoiding action (to save your life)and that action may result in damage to the vessel or result in polution. Thats what the HM is concerned about.
Or can the harbour authority ban a vessel from transiting the area because the vessel does not have an insurance certificate with them?
possibly - you need to ask the HA for a copy of their byelaws.
I feel that this is the 'thin end of the wedge' leading to ever more regulation!
possibly - but its unlikely to be new rules, HAs have had these sorts of powers for a very long time.
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Old 22 April 2008, 02:59   #13
Country: UK - England
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I think roohairy is talking about the civil liberties/freedom from excessive authority aspect.

Why not tell the harbourfuhrer that you wish to be left alone unharrassed and see what he does.

He may just be enjoying being a big boss in control of all these rich folks in their boats, and may have no authority at all to demand sight of insurance documents.


ps. again, I am not advocating being uninsured. it is about freedom of movement without excessive harrassment.

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