View Poll Results: Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance?
Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance 130 22.15%
Keep the current unregulated system with an emphasis on education 457 77.85%
Voters: 587. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12 August 2013, 03:43   #521
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Sledge hammer to crack a nut, the country's is going to hell in a handcart, public services & the economy are crumbling & you expect Parliament to spend time solving a problem that exists largely in the bee in your bonnet. Parliament has its hands full sorting out more pressing matters like Gay marriage to bugger about with this trivia. At the end of the day, people die, we all do, if a few people die because they don't wear this that or the other, so be it, plenty more where we come from.

Just to test your argument; so I arrive at the slip/marina/harbour, present my killcord/lifejacket/qualification to the little jumped up jobsworth on the slip & he deems me fit to launch, I launch my boat, anchor up, take off my lifejacket/killcord, have a beer or two with my lunch, who now checks/enforces that I've put on my killcord/lifejacket/clean undies & am fit to continue?

I agree wholeheartedly. Why bother meddling with other people's enjoyment of boating, why not just get on with your own enjoyment?
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Old 12 August 2013, 04:01   #522
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Sledge hammer to crack a nut, the country's is going to hell in a handcart, public services & the economy are crumbling & you expect Parliament to spend time solving a problem that exists largely in the bee in your bonnet. Parliament has its hands full sorting out more pressing matters like Gay marriage to bugger about with this trivia. At the end of the day, people die, we all do, if a few people die because they don't wear this that or the other, so be it, plenty more where we come from.

Just to test your argument; so I arrive at the slip/marina/harbour, present my killcord/lifejacket/qualification to the little jumped up jobsworth on the slip & he deems me fit to launch, I launch my boat, anchor up, take off my lifejacket/killcord, have a beer or two with my lunch, who now checks/enforces that I've put on my killcord/lifejacket/clean undies & am fit to continue?
And in testing your argument, I turn up in my car, no rules, no laws, drink a load of beer, blast out through the harbour, cos there is no laws against it, and I can do what i like, end up ramming a nice family who are out in thier boat/craft, whatever, wearing lifejackets with kill cord on, and all fully trained, but manage to kill them all anyway.

But thats alright cos there is nothing to say I shouldnt, apart from the fact it is wrong, but then after a few beers it is well known peoples reasoning skills, and thought processes are not working, but hey as we have (virtually) no laws to prevent it, that is tantamount to condoning it.

Lovely idea

It would be good if there are some constructive ideas on the alternative other than picking holes in suggestions I have made,

Come on, use some of the energy to suggest something positive?? I dare you???
Other than do nothing of course
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Old 12 August 2013, 04:03   #523
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So on Cowes week not a single skipper was seen with a Kill Cord, and 50% of passengers without Lifejackets? Looks like education just aint working to me
What education? I'd suggest that Aberdeen Asset Management might want to improve their paperwork for crews. Posters etc at all slips for spectators.

The sample of 0% KC use is a bit flawed since the reporter of that was presumably wearing a KC and so if I'd stood on the shore and done the counting I'd have counted him and so it wouldn't have been 0%. As there were several rib nobbers out I'd have thought the sample is not right. In addition the quote makes it sound like thats for the WHOLE WEEK - nothing like sensationalising. But a low uptake is a concern but hard to say education doesn't work if you cant tell me what education was done...

I'd rather see AAM/Cowes Week Ltd pick this up and try and support a local education campaign. So 2 months before the even when they are sharing their supporter information they empasise the Wear Your KC and Useless unless Worn campaign from the RNLI. They include stuff in the skipper packs that makes reference to supoort boats and tenders as well and they mention it at every skipper briefing. Then posters/fliers at every strategic slipway for Cowes Week. Even a banner add or two on the water near the start areas etc. THAT is EDUCATION.
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Old 12 August 2013, 04:09   #524
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And in testing your argument, I turn up in my car, no rules, no laws, drink a load of beer, blast out through the harbour, cos there is no laws against it, and I can do what i like, end up ramming a nice family who are out in thier boat/craft, whatever, wearing lifejackets with kill cord on, and all fully trained, but manage to kill them all anyway.
So tell me why you wouldn't be prosecuted for "Manslaughter by Gross Negligence"?
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Old 12 August 2013, 04:18   #525
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So tell me why you wouldn't be prosecuted for "Manslaughter by Gross Negligence"?
+1
Time to invoke #2 & #3 methinks, I knew I'd regret jumping in, that'll teach me Got to go, fish are waiting to be caught
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Old 12 August 2013, 04:19   #526
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What education? I'd suggest that Aberdeen Asset Management might want to improve their paperwork for crews. Posters etc at all slips for spectators.

The sample of 0% KC use is a bit flawed since the reporter of that was presumably wearing a KC and so if I'd stood on the shore and done the counting I'd have counted him and so it wouldn't have been 0%. As there were several rib nobbers out I'd have thought the sample is not right. In addition the quote makes it sound like thats for the WHOLE WEEK - nothing like sensationalising. But a low uptake is a concern but hard to say education doesn't work if you cant tell me what education was done...

I'd rather see AAM/Cowes Week Ltd pick this up and try and support a local education campaign. So 2 months before the even when they are sharing their supporter information they empasise the Wear Your KC and Useless unless Worn campaign from the RNLI. They include stuff in the skipper packs that makes reference to supoort boats and tenders as well and they mention it at every skipper briefing. Then posters/fliers at every strategic slipway for Cowes Week. Even a banner add or two on the water near the start areas etc. THAT is EDUCATION.
Ok the sample of 0% maybe flawed, but come on, even if only 10% (which would all be ribnobbers I am sure) were wearing the Kill cord, it is still too little, and only 50% lifejackets? there is already posters by the RNI about lifejacket use, and these are posted at various slips.

The measures you mention above seem to be only aimed at Cowes and people who are goin to attend. Why limit it to 2 months before Cowes? what about the rest of the country? or is there nothing beyond Cowes/Solent?

I dont go to Cowes, so how do I get a skipper pack? and who is going to give me my skipper briefing?

The slips where I launch have a whole bunch of signs about wearing lifejackets, Kill cords etc etc, but it does not seem to work. So there is education that you mention, you need to look around and open your eyes to see it. It is just not working!
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Old 12 August 2013, 04:21   #527
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+1
Time to invoke #2 & #3 methinks, I knew I'd regret jumping in, that'll teach me Got to go, fish are waiting to be caught
I must admit, I was thinking this earlier, that you are breaking your own rule 2 and 3.........
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Old 12 August 2013, 04:27   #528
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So tell me why you wouldn't be prosecuted for "Manslaughter by Gross Negligence"?
So tell me why there are laws against drink driving? flying while drunk? etc etc same difference. Lets not have any of those troublesome laws, and just use the manslaughter rules............

I will tell you why, they are there to try to PREVENT it, not to deal with the consequences.
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Old 12 August 2013, 04:38   #529
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[QUOTE="tonto;562264"]

There are bye laws, but as pointed out by the MCA there is very little chance of getting a conviction. There was the guy who crashed his rib into a ferry in the Thames, but the amount of convictions are few and far between, due to there being no national law.

As for the number of people killed. The last numbers I saw were quoted in a MIAB report, and said that 45 people (IIRC) in 5 years previous were killed in lesiure accidents where alcohol was involved, which the MAIB had investigated. There were no numbers for the amount of people who were injured, or needed rescuing. And that was just due to alcohol.

You should read them reports more carefully, MIAB have a tendency to generalise events and wording to make there reports more sensational, you might find that a guy died in a drunken stupor on a pontoon, to them that is marine related, didn't matter he was fishing.
I've got enough regulation in my life and I don't want no more, my old dad said rules are just guidelines, that's good enough for me
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Old 12 August 2013, 04:38   #530
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Originally Posted by ShinyShoe View Post
What education? I'd suggest that Aberdeen Asset Management might want to improve their paperwork for crews. Posters etc at all slips for spectators.

The sample of 0% KC use is a bit flawed since the reporter of that was presumably wearing a KC and so if I'd stood on the shore and done the counting I'd have counted him and so it wouldn't have been 0%. As there were several rib nobbers out I'd have thought the sample is not right. In addition the quote makes it sound like thats for the WHOLE WEEK - nothing like sensationalising. But a low uptake is a concern but hard to say education doesn't work if you cant tell me what education was done...

I'd rather see AAM/Cowes Week Ltd pick this up and try and support a local education campaign. So 2 months before the even when they are sharing their supporter information they empasise the Wear Your KC and Useless unless Worn campaign from the RNLI. They include stuff in the skipper packs that makes reference to supoort boats and tenders as well and they mention it at every skipper briefing. Then posters/fliers at every strategic slipway for Cowes Week. Even a banner add or two on the water near the start areas etc. THAT is EDUCATION.
Just to clear up this, NONE of the professional crews working for AAM Cowes week was seen breaking any rules/ SAFETY ISSUES. These were spectators and volunteers running crews about and people with RIBs not the people employed.
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