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Old 20 July 2007, 17:31   #31
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Originally Posted by codprawn View Post
You seem to be missing the point about the electronic charts. They are NOT all the same. You don't get the option of buying "detailed charts" with more or less detail - it's the basemap or the full chart - nothing in between. When you buy charts for a certain area that's what you get.
I believe Doug was referring to the Admiralty charts, which do give a range of levels and detail. For example, looking at Bembridge on my pc, I can zoom in and out through:

BA0002 British Isles scale 1:500,000
BA2656 English Channel - Central Part scale 1:325,000
BA2045 Outer approaches to the Solent scale 1:75,000
BA2037 Eastern approaches to the Solent scale 1:25,000

However plotters for the leisure market which use Admiralty charts are very few in number (not sure if there are any) - if you want raster based charts like Admiralty ones you need a pc or pocketpc
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Old 20 July 2007, 17:47   #32
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No he was talking about plotters in general.
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Old 20 July 2007, 18:03   #33
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Whichever maps (Charts) you use. If your going to be out and about just study them.

At the end of the day boating is dangerous.

So take your lifejackets, killcords and flares, know how to use them and as all good Scouts say 'Be prepared'.

NR.

"Its a jungle out there". Hill Street Blues.
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Old 20 July 2007, 18:50   #34
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You're a better man than me if you can drive a rib and plot your positions on a paper chart with dead reckoning etc when you're bouncing around at 30+ kts.
Navigating high speed open boats like RIBs is all about planning and using electronic navigation aids properly. No one is expecting people to sit on a RIB with a paper chart, a Portland plotter and pair of dividers and to ignore the GPS.

Anyone going out on a boat should familiarise themselves with the area using paper charts of the correct scale (as well as almanacs, books and knowledgeable locals) before setting out. Find out what the tides are doing - again its perfectly valid to buy the local tide books with graphs, print off tidal graphs from easytide or use the tide graphs on your chart plotter rather than drawing you own tidal curve and doing secondary port calculations.

Route planning should be done before getting on the boat. Plotting courses on a chart plotter or on computers is valid, but the routes should be duplicated onto paper charts - firstly to ensure the route is valid; it’s hard to appreciate your route on a 5inch plotter screen and second, because if the plotter fails for any reason you have your route on the paper chart.

Use techniques such as cross track error ladders to keep your position easily recorded on the chart as you make progress.


To those who say "You can't expect me to do all that just to go and potter round the bay!"

Yes - or at least the first time you do. The second time you can use the route you made for your first trip out, as well as all your local knowledge acquired from the first trip out.


I'd highly recommend an RYA intermediate course to anyone who isn't sure how to use traditional navigation alongside GPS/Chart plotters on a powerboat. It’s not a case of one or the other.
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Old 21 July 2007, 02:34   #35
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Ditto. Has anyone tried the Tough Chart Folios yet? Are they as good as the paper charts for detail, and easy(ish) to use on a RIB??
They use a selection of chart sections which are the same as the corresponding paper charts. They are physically easy to use because they don't flap around like a paper chart, but in practice aren't as clever as they might be.

I've got the "Area 1: The Solent and Approaches" book. Although it's A3, on half of the pages the actual charts are hardly bigger than A4, with a big border and space for notes!

For me the biggest drawback is that a series of small chartlets makes planning difficult and can also be a bit disorientating (it's a bit like working with a chart plotter that you can't zoom out).

My preferred option is still a Stanfords waterproof chart folded to A3 showing the area I want, inside a ziplock bag.

As the Admiralty were kind enough to send me the Tough Chart as a freebie, if you PM me your address I'll send it to you to try for yourself.

John
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Old 21 July 2007, 08:01   #36
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There's a major difference between chartwork on a sailing boat at 5 kts and that on a rib at 35kts. For a start, tidal streams and leeway are practically irrelevant on a planing motorboat. The point of my message was that Garmin seemed to be particularly poor at illustrating the same data as is found on a paper chart. I, and I'm sure many others too, would expect a chart plotter to display the same info of a paper chart, just in an electronic form. And I'm talking about the full Mapsource product, not the preinstalled basemap. You're a better man than me if you can drive a rib and plot your positions on a paper chart with dead reckoning etc when you're bouncing around at 30+ kts.

I have little sympathy for people that go out with little or no experience or training. I have rescued a number of people who have bought the equipment (flares VHF etc) but cannot use it and end up in trouble. Education not regulation is the answer IMHO.

Rant over

keith
We're in complete agreement here - education is a must. In my professional capacity as an educator in the corporate world, I would also cross reference the thread
What haven't you checked recently?
with niksters point, that education is not one off, but should have elements of prework (before a course) and essential is post training coaching. With driving licences for cars - you either have a licence or you don't. How about when you pass, you have to pay for a coach for 6 sessions, 1 a month after passing - to ensure you have confidence but aren't slipping into bad practise. I'd love to see some organisation offer this to us in the boating scene.
As to charkwork, I wouldn't dream of plotting regularly on a paper chart in the rib. I come back to the point about navigation being a collection of skills to safely get from A to B. As Codders said, for him it is MK1 eyeball!

I am amazed Mapsource don't give you the same detail as the admiralty - Navionics and CMap certainly do!
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Old 21 July 2007, 16:20   #37
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I am amazed Mapsource don't give you the same detail as the admiralty - Navionics and CMap certainly do!
The detail is there, it's just not displayed as clearly or in the same fashion as on an Admiralty paper chart. That's my gripe. For example, rocks awash at CD are shown as a small ring of dots.... hardly as clear as a cross with four dots is it!

keith
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Old 21 July 2007, 18:17   #38
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I have to agree. If you are not VERY familiar with your boating area then there is no replacemnt for spreading a full size chart out on the kitchen table and studying it for an hour or more. Then, just perhaps, you will understand what the GPS is telling you.
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Old 23 July 2007, 09:31   #39
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no replacemnt for spreading a full size chart out on the kitchen table and studying it for an hour or more. Then, just perhaps, you will understand what the GPS is telling you.
T.
Very true. Ithink being able to 'remember' what you have seen on paper by refering to a chart that has similar style is a good thing. For many years yachting my fav plotter was something called a yeoman which allows a paper chart to be put in a big 'wallet' attached to a hard foam like board. You had a mouse with a cross hair on it and four arrows that light up directing you to put the cross hair where you are, taking the lat/long from the GPS. This was before the days of having a screen display of any use. But I still had it as my back up until last year.
The BIG benefit is that you can see the actual paper chart and the comments you may have written on it. You can still get the yeoman and for those doing longer trips to new areas it is a bonus. On ribs the Yeoman Sport is perfect, and can be self contained - not reliant on another GPS etc
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