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Old 18 December 2012, 06:52   #1
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Are these seats legal?

In a coded vessel passengers are required to have seats. Would these backward facing seats qualify?
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Old 18 December 2012, 08:30   #2
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In a coded vessel passengers are required to have seats.
Are you sure? We have at least 20 coded boats in our fleet* which do not have seats for everyone

(*this comment is in the context of my "other" job, this is not the training boats at SeaSkills which do have seats for everyone)
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Old 18 December 2012, 08:56   #3
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Rib Seats

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Are you sure? We have at least 20 coded boats in our fleet* which do not have seats for everyone

(*this comment is in the context of my "other" job, this is not the training boats at SeaSkills which do have seats for everyone)
My query stems from a MAIB report where someone was injured on a RIB - my understanding is that there is a move to regulate coded RIBS whereby all passengers will have to have a seat. I believe regulators would like everyone to have a a "Jockey Style" seat with a grab bar. My question is is this regulation in place yet?

The accident which prompted this is covered in the report (link here)

Marine Accident Investigation: Delta RIB
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Old 18 December 2012, 09:11   #4
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I believe regulators would like everyone to have a a "Jockey Style" seat with a grab bar.
Surely if this is the case, NONE of your seats would be acceptable? I think you'll find that you have been misinformed. People have been injured on jockey seats too - some quite badly. The big concern in the industry is that Shock Mitigation will become mandatory. Ultimately if people get injured on a boat, the investigators will deem that it should have been avoided. If you get injured in a full suspension console wearing a four point harness and helmet - then it wasn't enough.

In the Republic of Ireland, all coded RIBs require a seat per passenger, with hand grips etc. The is currently no shock mitigation requirement.
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Old 18 December 2012, 10:35   #5
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I suppose the annomaly lies in the conclusion that was made that "occupants should be in appropriate seating". The MCA was supposed to have written an ammendment in MGN 280 and revised the codes for small commercial vessels with this in mind. However I can only see any references to "appropriate seating" - so one would have to assume then that this is still open to question.
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Old 18 December 2012, 11:49   #6
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My mate has suggest this solution as a retro fit! Er not sure...


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Old 19 December 2012, 12:08   #7
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I suppose the annomaly lies in the conclusion that was made that "occupants should be in appropriate seating".
It will always be the driver's fault if someone gets hurt. We should look firstly to the driver, not the boat, to protect those on board. The equipment helps, but isn't the main thing

Once you put shock mitigation seating in, it will increase the driver's propensity to drive too fast, and the risk increases again if you don't drive to the conditions.

I usually find it more comfortable to stand when I'm driving - just a personal thing - and some will argue that standing allows you to take the shock through your legs. It doesn't. It's just a different way of delivering the shock to your spine.

If you absolutely have to go fast and hard, then some seating will allow you to go faster and harder in a greater degree of safety than others, but the better answer is simply not to go faster or harder than the boat, it's equipment, and it's passengers can reasonably and comfortably take. It's that old duty-of-care thing
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Old 19 December 2012, 12:59   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indaba1991 View Post
I suppose the annomaly lies in the conclusion that was made that "occupants should be in appropriate seating". The MCA was supposed to have written an ammendment in MGN 280 and revised the codes for small commercial vessels with this in mind. However I can only see any references to "appropriate seating" - so one would have to assume then that this is still open to question.
Our guys from PCA have been at these consultations with MCA over changes to to MGN280 and it was expected but delayed so far.
You will find many RIBs are coded without seats presently- i.e Dive boats.

Most of the time you need your coding surveyor who will check and sign applications to be brought in early on discussions. It may depend on use and location to decide appropriate seating.

Shock reduction seating has been spoken about many times here, so check search on it. The legislation is already law for us as operators and I can only see an issue when there is a reported incident and an operator cannot show what they did to reduce shock.( i.e throttle/helm is the main one) You cannot in my opinion fit shock reduction to a boat to work commercially unless you fit all seats with a similar application. If you did fit helm /crew shocks and then had normal seating for clients or others aboard- I can hear lawyers banging on your door the moment an injury occurs.
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Old 19 December 2012, 13:11   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indaba1991 View Post
My query stems from a MAIB report where someone was injured on a RIB - my understanding is that there is a move to regulate coded RIBS whereby all passengers will have to have a seat. I believe regulators would like everyone to have a a "Jockey Style" seat with a grab bar. My question is is this regulation in place yet?

The accident which prompted this is covered in the report (link here)

Marine Accident Investigation: Delta RIB
During that accident many of us have queried why the injured party was allowed to have a rucksack on in such a manner which exagerated the injury chance, Ruck sack may have had a greater role in this and the front unpadded seat was unwise. Again 30knots is not slow so may be a helm issue as spoken in earlier posts
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Old 19 December 2012, 14:56   #10
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During that accident many of us have queried why the injured party was allowed to have a rucksack on in such a manner which exagerated the injury chance, Ruck sack may have had a greater role in this and the front unpadded seat was unwise. Again 30knots is not slow so may be a helm issue as spoken in earlier posts
I am sure I am not alone in feeling slightly uneasy as to the mechanism of how
"investigated incidents" suddenly create legislation. I am sure the MCA and MAIB have extremely qualified people who look at an accident liked this. On the other hand I am not sure these bodies spend enough time in consultation with operators of coded vessels who could offer good advice how to set changes that are realistic and related. I would agree wholeheartedly that correct helm / throttle control is probably a greater safeguard against injury than any fancy sprung seat. This would imply better training of people qualifying to drive passengers. Is there any case for graduated qualification of RIB type and engine size? This is not something that was introduced in motorcycle licensing?
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