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Old 08 April 2013, 07:48   #1
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Transom reglueing-PVC sib.

Some questions about Ballastboy's PVC sib transom repair.

It's got the transom almost completely off, but apart from that the boat is unpatched and no leaks so it's well worth regluing.

The rubber transom holders are totally off-from both the boat and the transom. So...

Given that the Polymarine guide says use single part hypalon glue to prime the transom before glueing with 2 part PVC glue, can we use 2 part hypalon glue to prime the transom before glueing with 2 part pvc glue as I've got more here than I can use before it goes off?
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Old 08 April 2013, 11:58   #2
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Nos;

What you're trying to do is to use an adhesive that adheres to the different substrates, then stick the differing glues together.

The 2-part hypalon glues are not a hardener and adhesive a la epoxy resins, but rather an adhesive and a "modifier" that renders the bond more resistant to chemical attack (at least that's what the stuff I use says.) I use this stuff to attach hypalon to aluminum, and it holds quite well (assuming I take the time to prep correctly); I would suggest that the 2-part is superior to the single part in just about any application (even if you forego the additive.)

I've tried the single part hypalon glue once, attaching some accessory bits to a SIB, and was less than impressed with its performance.

In short, I'd say yes, you can use the 2-part, and it would probably be preferable.

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Old 08 April 2013, 12:56   #3
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Agree, the 2 part has always been vastly better than 1 part for every use I have ever had or needed.
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Old 08 April 2013, 13:13   #4
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What you guys have said is what I thought too, but I'm wondering if there's a reason that the PVC glue won't bond to the 2-part hypalon, given that the PVC glue 'welds' rather than adheres?
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Old 08 April 2013, 15:52   #5
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No. The PVC glue "welds" to PVC in much the same manner that the hypalon glue "bonds" to hypalon. In neither case does much actual dissolution/intermixing/hardening take place (though I may be worng; if a chemist/materials engineer can provide clarification, I'm open to correction.)

The glues have minimal penetration into the fabric material, and rely on their rather tenacious tensile strength to form the bond.

The glue-to-glue joint should be fairly reliable between any normal hypalon adhesive and and normal PVC adhesive. Usually both are some kind of super rubber-based contact cement, so they stick quite well to each other. Difference, I think, is primarily in the solvent used to attain fabric penetration (and a majority of that is flashed off before bonding.)

Might get iffy if you throw in a urethane adhesive; I don't have any experience trying that.

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Old 08 April 2013, 15:58   #6
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What I thought was PVC glue is effectively like polystyrene cement,? Ie it melts the parent materials together? Thats why i'm slightly confused.
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Old 08 April 2013, 16:05   #7
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What I thought was PVC glue is effectively like polystyrene cement,? Ie it melts the parent materials together? Thats why i'm slightly confused.
They do. At least when I had a PVC boat it seems to and all my PVC plumbing seems "melted" together.

But I doubt this impacts whether your PVC glue will or won't adhere to the 1 or 2 part hypalon glue you are using as a primer. They probably suggested 1 part since its cheap and works good enough in that application.
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Old 08 April 2013, 16:24   #8
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They do. At least when I had a PVC boat it seems to and all my PVC plumbing seems "melted" together.

But I doubt this impacts whether your PVC glue will or won't adhere to the 1 or 2 part hypalon glue you are using as a primer. They probably suggested 1 part since its cheap and works good enough in that application.
I think I see... I thought maybe the PVC glue had the same effect on the hypalon glue as it does on PVC?
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Old 08 April 2013, 18:23   #9
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What you guys have said is what I thought too, but I'm wondering if there's a reason that the PVC glue won't bond to the 2-part hypalon, given that the PVC glue 'welds' rather than adheres?
As far as I know Polymarine's adhesives have a different formulation to e.g. Bostik's and its not quite as simple as saying 1 part v's 2 part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nos4r2 View Post
I think I see... I thought maybe the PVC glue had the same effect on the hypalon glue as it does on PVC?
If it is Polymarine's glues - then they both seem to use the same "hardener" - which is a 'standard' hardener used for polyurethane type materials to make it more rigid (4,4-MDI) . i.e. the hypalon adhesive hardener appears to be the same as the the PVC one. So I can't see any issue mixing them.

As I understand it the general issue with using hypalon adhesive on PVC is that the plasticisers (small molecules which make PVC flexible) migrate out the material and then "unstick" the glue.

I can't see any reason not to use the 2 part. But then there also seem to be no reason not just use the main part of the 2 part (i.e. leave out the 107 Hardner).

All this may be different for Bostik!
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Old 08 April 2013, 18:55   #10
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I think I see... I thought maybe the PVC glue had the same effect on the hypalon glue as it does on PVC?
I am not sure. The real issue to me is why doesn't PVC glue stick to the transom? I am guessing it peels off and that's why you need a hypalon glue on there as a primer glue.
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