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Old 04 February 2011, 10:32   #1
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Tacho installers

Am about to get a tacho which we have (was on a Maverick we had in once) fitted into the Cherokee (12v, analogue system as vehicle pre-2006) so we can use it for larger stuff (Grand Cherokee already has one, which cost alot....well, alot more than it needed to have!).

Friend /mech has confirmed its as easy as it looks to install, as does the handbook and manuf has confirmed its compatible......

Have been searching around for an approved installer /calibrator etc and have a massive range of quotes from manufacturers recognised centres up to 1.5K plus, and down to 250 ish which is based on 5 hours labour plus first calibration. Now the latter is v reasonable IMO, but got me thinking.....

Is there any reason we couldn't fit it and then merely get it tested /calibrated /certified at centre? Has anyone done it this way around and does anyone have any recomendations /know anyone who might calibrate etc if we were to do this?

Get the impression there is a fair amount of 'cashing in' on peoples ignorance as to how relatively simple this 12v kit is.....

Thanks
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Old 04 February 2011, 13:10   #2
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You might be on a sticky one there- as far as I'm aware all vehicles regardless of age with a complete new tacho fitted should be fitted with a digital tachograph.
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Old 04 February 2011, 17:31   #3
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You might be on a sticky one there- as far as I'm aware all vehicles regardless of age with a complete new tacho fitted should be fitted with a digital tachograph.
Spoke with commissioning centre today (correct terminology?) and they said that pre 06 vehicles analogue okay?? Thanks for heads up though.....will investigate further
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Old 04 February 2011, 18:14   #4
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Spoke with commissioning centre today (correct terminology?) and they said that pre 06 vehicles analogue okay?? Thanks for heads up though.....will investigate further
I may be wrong, but those were the rules that were pushed at us when digital tachos were introduced. There may have been changes since. I'd take the tacho centre's word over mine though as they'll be more up to date.
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Old 04 February 2011, 18:37   #5
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About 4 years ago I was pulled by Plod on the M1,I was towing a 7m trailer with a Disco for work. He asked to see my tacho, which I didn't have fitted. After much tooing & froing between plod & VOSA, I was told that as the vehicle (Disco) was classed as "dual purpose" I didn't need a tacho. Has this now changed or are dual purpose vehicles still exempt?
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Old 05 February 2011, 15:01   #6
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About 4 years ago I was pulled by Plod on the M1,I was towing a 7m trailer with a Disco for work. He asked to see my tacho, which I didn't have fitted. After much tooing & froing between plod & VOSA, I was told that as the vehicle (Disco) was classed as "dual purpose" I didn't need a tacho. Has this now changed or are dual purpose vehicles still exempt?
Nasher recently posted this up http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?...trailer+towing Vosa /Tacho section worth a read....must admit, wasn't aware of any 'dual purpose' exemption

Exemption no.3 (if I'm reading it correctly) would seem to mean that (provided you were within vehicles limits etc), you could tow /run with a rig over the 3.5 tonne limit within 50 Klicks of base and no tacho required....
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Old 07 February 2011, 11:05   #7
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Nasher recently posted this up http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?...trailer+towing Vosa /Tacho section worth a read....must admit, wasn't aware of any 'dual purpose' exemption

Exemption no.3 (if I'm reading it correctly) would seem to mean that (provided you were within vehicles limits etc), you could tow /run with a rig over the 3.5 tonne limit within 50 Klicks of base and no tacho required....
This is correct, but only if driving doesn't constitute the driver's main activity - i.e. you're towing your boat to the launch site for a day on the water - OK, towing it to a boatyard for repairs - not OK.
The 'dual purpose' clause refers to the need to have an operators licence. The tacho issue is seperate.

It's an absolute minefield.
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Old 07 February 2011, 13:34   #8
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i.e. you're towing your boat to the launch site for a day on the water - OK, towing it to a boatyard for repairs - not OK.
?? Presumably just a bit of an unclear example there... but how would towing a boat to a boatyard make driving a main part of the drivers activities? If Mr X can drive a boat stored on land to a launch site where he will then use the boat then surely Mr X can a boat stored afloat to a workshop for repairs? Indeed could a mechanic Mr Y not also collect the boat for repair provided he wasn't just a delivery driver?
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Old 07 February 2011, 15:02   #9
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I thought hire or reward was the governing factor ?.
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Old 07 February 2011, 15:14   #10
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?? Presumably just a bit of an unclear example there... but how would towing a boat to a boatyard make driving a main part of the drivers activities? If Mr X can drive a boat stored on land to a launch site where he will then use the boat then surely Mr X can a boat stored afloat to a workshop for repairs? Indeed could a mechanic Mr Y not also collect the boat for repair provided he wasn't just a delivery driver?
Nope, The legislation states that you can carry tools, goods or machinery within a 50km radius of your 'base of operations' for use in the course of the driver's work. You can't tow something from A to B without then using it yourself at B.

Bonkers, but there you go.

N.B. This only applies to commercial use BTW!!
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Old 07 February 2011, 15:16   #11
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Indeed could a mechanic Mr Y not also collect the boat for repair provided he wasn't just a delivery driver?
Our mechanic got fined for exactly this a few years ago, despite his protestations. Apparently in this context you are just a delivery driver!
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Old 07 February 2011, 17:03   #12
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Nope, The legislation states that you can carry tools, goods or machinery within a 50km radius of your 'base of operations' for use in the course of the driver's work. You can't tow something from A to B without then using it yourself at B.

Bonkers, but there you go.

N.B. This only applies to commercial use BTW!!
That is correct as I understand it, and has not changed for 15 yeras or so, as I alluded earlier, I could transport a digger to my 'own job' on an HGV and dont require a tacho as long as its within a 50 km radius of base .. and not for hire or reward, but if I was to do so and 'hire' or allow somone else to use it, I would need a tacho ..(either inside or outside the 50KM limit) this is what you are referring to as commercial useage. I assumed trailers are the same

Presumably the mechanic was being paid a salary to drive the vehicle, to transport the boat from A to B so he was being rewarded.. was that it or was the base further than 50 KM ?
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Old 08 February 2011, 03:09   #13
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That is correct as I understand it, and has not changed for 15 yeras or so, as I alluded earlier, I could transport a digger to my 'own job' on an HGV and dont require a tacho as long as its within a 50 km radius of base .. and not for hire or reward, but if I was to do so and 'hire' or allow somone else to use it, I would need a tacho ..(either inside or outside the 50KM limit) this is what you are referring to as commercial useage. I assumed trailers are the same

Presumably the mechanic was being paid a salary to drive the vehicle, to transport the boat from A to B so he was being rewarded.. was that it or was the base further than 50 KM ?
The 50km derogation applies to commercial use (i.e. for hire or reward) provided the combined MAM of the rig doesn't exceed 7.5t.

For private use, I don't think there are any restrictions provided the MAM is under 7.5t. I could well be wrong on this one - I've not researched it as much as the commercial rules!

Can't remember the complete circumstances of the mech's prosecution TBH, but I'm certain it was that the 'load' being carried was not for his use - perhaps he was delivering it back to the customer!
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Old 12 February 2011, 16:42   #14
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The exact wording is "Vehicle is not over 7500kg GVW or is part of a combination of vehicles not over 7500 kg combined GVW which is used to carry materials equipment or machinery for the driver s use in the course of his work within a 50 km radius of base and where driving is not the driver s main activity".

A skipper towing a RIB within 50km of his base would therefore not require a tacho, but a mechanic would as the RIB is not used in the course of him work.

As stated the dual purpose vehicle exemption is only for the operators licence, not tacho so I dont know how you got away with that one.

A friend of mine installed a analogue tacho in a pre 2006 vehicle himself, then just took the vehicle along for calibration. Worked out far cheaper for him than having it fitted at a dealer.

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Old 13 February 2011, 04:47   #15
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A friend of mine installed a analogue tacho in a pre 2006 vehicle himself, then just took the vehicle along for calibration. Worked out far cheaper for him than having it fitted at a dealer.

Michael
Hi Michael, that is helpful in relation to my OP...... We are looking to install one on the Cherokee also.....as we may like to start using it outside of 50K.....seems everywhere is over 50K away where we live!!
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Old 13 February 2011, 05:06   #16
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The exact wording is "Vehicle is not over 7500kg GVW or is part of a combination of vehicles not over 7500 kg combined GVW which is used to carry materials equipment or machinery for the driver s use in the course of his work within a 50 km radius of base and where driving is not the driver s main activity".

A skipper towing a RIB within 50km of his base would therefore not require a tacho, but a mechanic would as the RIB is not used in the course of him work.

Michael
Michael, this is an interesting thread.
Can I ask some questions about towing a 6 or 8 metre RIB without a tacho. Obviously I am a commercial operator so not private use. I dont as a norm offer tow services but have helped in the past. I am more concerned about getting fined for doing some work
1. can tow a Boat behind my works van up to 50k for my business use?
2. Can I tow behind the works van some 235k from my marina to the manufactures for maintenance
3. If I tow another boat for reward I need a Tacho??
4. If I use my other halves 4x4 can I describe this as private use?

Cheers I am guessing there could be a grey area if stopped and I have a car/4x4 and they cant show it is a business trip

To add another problem, what about the manufacturers transporting RIBs all around the UK on deliveries, do they need Tacho fitted to their vans and 4x4s
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Old 14 February 2011, 06:37   #17
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1. can tow a Boat behind my works van up to 50k for my business use?
Only if you're going to 'use' the boat when you get there.

Quote:
2. Can I tow behind the works van some 235k from my marina to the manufactures for maintenance
Only if it's not commercial use - I doubt you'd convince a roadside inspector it's personal use if it's your workboat and works van!

Quote:
3. If I tow another boat for reward I need a Tacho??
If you're just moving the boat from A to B, yes. If it's part of a crewed charter trip (i.e. you're going to be crewing on the boat) it should be OK.

Quote:
4. If I use my other halves 4x4 can I describe this as private use?
If you're not being paid to undertake the trip, then it's not commercial. If you are, it is commercial.

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Cheers I am guessing there could be a grey area if stopped and I have a car/4x4 and they cant show it is a business trip
The onus would probably be on you prove it's not business use. VOSA's tactics seem to be to prosecute and for you to defend your actions in court.

Quote:
To add another problem, what about the manufacturers transporting RIBs all around the UK on deliveries, do they need Tacho fitted to their vans and 4x4s
I don't see how they could be exempt under this derogation.
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Old 14 February 2011, 11:51   #18
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Dan

I have been a tacho fitter for the best part of twenty years and you are correct in what you say the system can be swapped over into a different vehicle and then calibrated, as long as the new vehicle is pre 2006 you can still install an analog system anything after this requires a digital system.

The only new items that should be needed would be new electric feeds and return to the unit possible a different or modified mounting tray ( bear in mind the unit has to be visable from the drivers seat). You may also need a different transducer or sender unit as alot are vehicle specific and not easily interchangable, apart from that not alot else will be required.

You could fit it yourself be we try to do this for the customer as we know it is then correct and will comply with legislation. The price of 250.00 seems about right for a swap over (as long as everything is working and compatabile). I assume the price of 1500.00 would be for a full digital supply and fit (yes they can get this expensive ususally due to additional vehicle dealer parts that are required).

If you get a written quote and you want an honest opinion of it you can PM me and I will try to help.
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Old 14 February 2011, 12:48   #19
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Thank you dry doc, no doubt VOSA and authorities like figures to confuse us/me. Final I hope relates to weight issues. At what weight does having a Tacho become mandatory for commercial work
I have 8 metre at 2.5 tonnes and 6 metre at 1.5 but van is only a Toyota Hiace and 4x4 is a terrano
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Old 14 February 2011, 13:48   #20
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Dan

I have been a tacho fitter for the best part of twenty years and you are correct in what you say the system can be swapped over into a different vehicle and then calibrated, as long as the new vehicle is pre 2006 you can still install an analog system anything after this requires a digital system.....If you get a written quote and you want an honest opinion of it you can PM me and I will try to help.
Chambo, you are a gentleman many thanks for the offer, may well take you up on it!

Intend to have a look at fitting it ourselves (sort of) when get chance...In fact, if I get time over the coming weekend, am going to have a looksy for a suitable 'pulse' source....have been told the speed sensor on the back of the G'Box in the Cherokee is the way to go (?)....Have a friend who is an auto electrician....if i can get hold of him I will call in a favour ....the local claibration cenbtre have been really helpful....wish i'd known what I know now when we had one fitted to the GC, could have saved a few quid (very important when you are a Cardi)

Thanks again, much appreciated!
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