Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 14 May 2019, 17:20   #1
Member
 
gtflash's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: southampton
Boat name: TOP CAT 2
Make: Scorpion 8.1
Length: 8m +
Engine: 250hp HO
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,513
5000kg boat.

Looking at a heavier 5000kg. . I appreciate it is not towable behind the discovery. Read some stuff about Mini Artics but not worked it out yet.

I have a 1993 license with be and c1e.

Two questions.
Is there another way other than mini artic. To tow a load such as above. Eg American truck, air brakes, Fifth wheel?

Second query. I am no doubtful about my current setup. 2.2t ish discovery 2, towing trailer with gross capacity of 2600kg and boat of around 1500-1800kg

Thanks gt
__________________

__________________
gtflash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 May 2019, 17:34   #2
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Make: Avon Searider
Length: 4m +
Engine: Yamaha 50
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,664
If you passed your test in 1993 then your current set-up is legal, providing the weight of the boat is within that 2600kg combined with the weight of the trailer. Best thing to do would be get it weighed at a weighbridge - if the whole boat and trailer is less than 2600kg you're legal (Disco is legal to tow up to 3500kg on overun brakes, more if you have air brakes fitted but from memory only up to 4500kg gross).

As for the other, you'll need something that is capable and legal of towing that sort of weight and you'll be looking at a trailer with air brakes. 5th wheeler pickup rigs are pretty common in the US for larger boats - the biggest issue of going down that road in the UK, assuming you imported something would be getting it through all the UK road law hoops, MOT, type approval etc.
__________________

__________________
Tim M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 May 2019, 00:48   #3
Member
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,389
RIBase
5000kg boat.

VanClaes make a 5th wheel triple axle trailer, I shudder to think what they cost. Youíd still have to find something to pull it though.
At 5t for the boat + trailer + tow vehicle, youíre going to be well over the 7.5t limit on your license. You might have to go Class2 HGV
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 May 2019, 01:44   #4
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: north ayrshire
Boat name: charlie girl
Make: reiver 3.8/regal3760
Length: 10m +
Engine: 40hp 2st 2x6lp 315
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,313
Simple answer is its impractical to tow 5000kg. you couldn't even load that onto a 7.5t truck and drive on your licence
__________________
beamishken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 May 2019, 03:07   #5
Member
 
Dan Gurney's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Bingley, West Yorks
Boat name: Iolar
Make: Redbay
Length: 6m +
Engine: Suzuki DF140
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,028
You'd need it craned in when you get there too, so not like you can really "trailer-sail" it anyway?
__________________
Dan Gurney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 May 2019, 04:57   #6
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Waterlooville
Boat name: Tickler
Make: Halmatic P22
Length: 6m +
Engine: Inboard Diesel 140HP
MMSI: 235115642
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 769
RIBase
I think the C1E license you have will limit you to a combined weight of vehicle and trailer to 8.25 tonnes. A 5 tonne boat with a (guess) 1.5 tonne trailer would give you only 1.75 tonnes for the towing vehicle which I don't think is achievable.

The C1E license will go up to a 12 tonne combined limit but I don't know what is involved in going from 8.25 tonnes to 12 tonnes.

A Unimog would be one option although I guess there are other 7,500kg GVW vehicles that would be capable of towing. I think the challenge would be keeping the towing vehicle down to 5.5 tonnes or so assuming you can get the 12 tonne capacity.

Alternatively do your HGV license and then there are no end of (man maths possible) options.
__________________
GuyC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 May 2019, 04:58   #7
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Make: HumberOceanOffshore
Length: 8m +
Engine: Volvo KAD300/DPX
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,381
Nah, you're stuck. C1E is currently up to 8250kgs combined vehicle and trailer. The problem is your boat plus a suitable trailer doesn't leave enough weight for a vehicle capable of towing that load.

The vanclaes rig only gets you into the 4000kg range. I spoke to them about this rig at length but it turned out that though I could make the weight work, they weren't keen on immersing the trailer brakes so it was no use to me. There's always a catch.
__________________
JW.
jwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 May 2019, 05:41   #8
Member
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,389
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtflash View Post
Looking at a heavier 5000kg. . I appreciate it is not towable behind the discovery. Read some stuff about Mini Artics but not worked it out yet.



I have a 1993 license with be and c1e.



Two questions.

Is there another way other than mini artic. To tow a load such as above. Eg American truck, air brakes, Fifth wheel?



Second query. I am no doubtful about my current setup. 2.2t ish discovery 2, towing trailer with gross capacity of 2600kg and boat of around 1500-1800kg



Thanks gt


Stick it in a marina
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 May 2019, 05:51   #9
Member
 
Bern Hanreck's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Norfolk/Suffolk Borders
Make: no boat
Length: no boat
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 831
Are you a BIBOA member ? If not it might be worth asking Trevor G ( on here ) to put you in touch with some of the guys who did tow 10M ribs up and down the country ( although I believe there always were questions about TOTAL compliance and they had American import vehicles & air brakes ).

Also Andy Micklewright ( occasional poster on here ) used to carry his big Redbay on the back of an artic and crane in when visiting marinas at the other end of the country ! Very helpful chap might be able to help ?
__________________
Bern Hanreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 May 2019, 15:58   #10
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: suffolk
Boat name: not yet
Make: Nautica/ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yam 115/ Honda 100
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 525
Theres a guy visits Levington marina with a big rib with twin diesels ,tows with a Unimog ,hav,nt a clue if this is in the right ballpark or helpful
__________________
Orwell boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 May 2019, 17:09   #11
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: north ayrshire
Boat name: charlie girl
Make: reiver 3.8/regal3760
Length: 10m +
Engine: 40hp 2st 2x6lp 315
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim M View Post
If you passed your test in 1993 then your current set-up is legal, providing the weight of the boat is within that 2600kg combined with the weight of the trailer. Best thing to do would be get it weighed at a weighbridge - if the whole boat and trailer is less than 2600kg you're legal (Disco is legal to tow up to 3500kg on overun brakes, more if you have air brakes fitted but from memory only up to 4500kg gross).

As for the other, you'll need something that is capable and legal of towing that sort of weight and you'll be looking at a trailer with air brakes. 5th wheeler pickup rigs are pretty common in the US for larger boats - the biggest issue of going down that road in the UK, assuming you imported something would be getting it through all the UK road law hoops, MOT, type approval etc.
I used to import a lot of vehicles from Japan and towing limits for import vehicles are a very grey area. Having had lengthy conversations with vosa re towing capacities for imports.
The best answer I got was that if a vehicle didnt have a towing capacity marked on the chassis plate then technically that vehicle had no entitlement to tow. When it was put to vosa that surely the import vehicle should have the same capacity as its uk counter part eg shogun/pajero toyota surf/4runner and many of those vehicles towed regularly on uk roads. The answer given was that the acid test would be if one of those vehicles was involved in a fatal rta related to the trailer then a court would need to make a determination re the legality of towing with such vehicles. Until a fatality brought the matter to court then any action would be unlikely.
The point was also made that even with a towing capacity marked on the vehicle then because the vehicle hadn't undergone uk type approval for towing that the same rule applied .
Sva was brought in as a mechanism to test and approve none type approved vehicles for uk use however no assessment of towing suitability is available.
Given the above even towing with heavyweight US vehicles is a grey area.
__________________
beamishken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 May 2019, 18:10   #12
Member
 
gtflash's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: southampton
Boat name: TOP CAT 2
Make: Scorpion 8.1
Length: 8m +
Engine: 250hp HO
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,513
Thanks all. Glad current rig is legal. I know the biboa guys used to tow twin engines scorpion cabin ribs local, with tubes deflated. Sadly not a member anymore but might have Chris email.

So the 8250kg on my license is vehicle, trailer and load weight all in? Does that mean a 7.5tonner is vehicle and load of 7.5 max? Iíve got very confused with MAM, kerb weight, gvw
__________________
gtflash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 May 2019, 08:41   #13
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Waterlooville
Boat name: Tickler
Make: Halmatic P22
Length: 6m +
Engine: Inboard Diesel 140HP
MMSI: 235115642
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 769
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtflash View Post
So the 8250kg on my license is vehicle, trailer and load weight all in? Does that mean a 7.5tonner is vehicle and load of 7.5 max?
Yes and yes it does

MAM is the same as GVW
Kerb weight is weight of the vehicle without passengers, cargo and fuel
__________________
GuyC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 May 2019, 12:46   #14
Member
 
lakelandterrier's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Gloucester
Boat name: Lunasea
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: Suzi 140
MMSI: 232005050
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,441
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyC View Post
Yes and yes it does

MAM is the same as GVW
Kerb weight is weight of the vehicle without passengers, cargo and fuel
MAM is total permissable weight of vehicle,fuel passengers etc and load combined. A 7.5t vehicle does not weigh 7.5t itself, nor will have a 7.5t payload.
__________________
Member of the Macmillan Round the Isle of Wight Club
lakelandterrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 May 2019, 15:14   #15
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: north ayrshire
Boat name: charlie girl
Make: reiver 3.8/regal3760
Length: 10m +
Engine: 40hp 2st 2x6lp 315
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtflash View Post
Thanks all. Glad current rig is legal. I know the biboa guys used to tow twin engines scorpion cabin ribs local, with tubes deflated. Sadly not a member anymore but might have Chris email.

So the 8250kg on my license is vehicle, trailer and load weight all in? Does that mean a 7.5tonner is vehicle and load of 7.5 max? Iíve got very confused with MAM, kerb weight, gvw
A scorpion sting weighs in at 4.5t dry so whilst technically you can tow it with a specialist vehicle I'd suggest the guys doing so were running the gauntlet of being overweight. I once towed a searay 290 sundancer from the lakes to the north east of england with a landcruiser probably 5t in weight & 6" too wide did the journey no problem but totally outside the rules (I was younger then and £500 saved for a 70 or 80 mile delivery seemed worth the risk)
Often people push the boundaries of the law, just because they do and don't get caught doesn't make it legal or sensible
__________________
beamishken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 May 2019, 18:25   #16
RIBnet supporter
 
Trevor G's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Crowthorne
Boat name: Black Adder+BabyBlue
Make: Shearwater + Avon
Length: 8m +
Engine: TDi Diesel + Merc 60
MMSI: 235026679
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 932
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtflash View Post
I know the biboa guys used to tow twin engines scorpion cabin ribs local, with tubes deflated. Sadly not a member anymore but might have Chris email.
Chris is probably the best person to ask - I think Mike used to get Hotlemon moved by lorry rather than trailer.

I can get their contact details if you want them.
Trevor
__________________
Trevor G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 May 2019, 05:29   #17
Member
 
gtflash's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: southampton
Boat name: TOP CAT 2
Make: Scorpion 8.1
Length: 8m +
Engine: 250hp HO
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor G View Post
Chris is probably the best person to ask - I think Mike used to get Hotlemon moved by lorry rather than trailer.

I can get their contact details if you want them.
Trevor
Yes please.

And thanks all
__________________
gtflash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 May 2019, 17:55   #18
RIBnet supporter
 
Trevor G's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Crowthorne
Boat name: Black Adder+BabyBlue
Make: Shearwater + Avon
Length: 8m +
Engine: TDi Diesel + Merc 60
MMSI: 235026679
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 932
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtflash View Post
Yes please.

And thanks all
PM sent with some details.
__________________
Trevor G is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:20.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.