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Old 13 July 2014, 14:20   #1
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Country: UK - England
Town: Midlands - Wolverhampton
Make: BWM DS21
Length: 6m +
Engine: Evinrude 150
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 70
Rough/surgy mis firing ficht 150

Well following on from my last thread about the circuit breaker the engine now starts and runs but not very well.

It's very rough and surgy at tick over and there is also a misfire.

I've put new plugs in as I don't know the age of the originals having only bought the boat very recently but it's made no difference. I'm guessing it could be leads or coil packs or injectors etc.....

I'm not sure where to go next really but I'm thinking I'm going to be clutching at straws without the evinrude diagnostic software/cable.

Does anyone have any ideas about where to start or where to get the diagnostic software/cables from?

Failing that does anyone know a good/reliable evinrude dealer/tech not too far from Wolverhampton in the West midlands as I'm starting to loose the will to live with this engine? I just want to go out ribbing and can't get this thing reliable/useable.

Cheers
Rob
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Old 13 July 2014, 17:53   #2
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Country: UK - England
Town: Zummerset
Boat name: irven arlyss
Make: Humber Oceanpro
Length: 6m +
Engine: evinrude 135hp
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 394
I had a very similar problem on my Ficht 135 (same engine block, etc)
With mine it eventually turned out to be a scrapped cylinder, I really hope yours is not the same.
Do a compression test on all cylinders, and check out fleabag for the software.
Check the leads and where they go onto the coils for corrosion.
Also check the crank position sensor, as that will give the same problems, you need to check the gap, and also the resistance, but best you can do is get software, and manual from the net.

Hope you get to the bottom of it.
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Old 13 July 2014, 19:23   #3
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Country: UK - England
Town: Midlands - Wolverhampton
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Engine: Evinrude 150
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 70
Checked the gap to the sensor and it's fine but will check resistance.

In the process of sorting the software, going to make up a lead. Also a friend is coming round to do the compression test in the next couple of days so I to hope that it isn't a cylinder issue!

Cheers
Rob
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Old 13 July 2014, 19:24   #4
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Country: UK - England
Town: Midlands - Wolverhampton
Make: BWM DS21
Length: 6m +
Engine: Evinrude 150
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Also read about an exhaust pressure sensor that can give similar problems so going to have a hunt for that.
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Old 14 July 2014, 18:44   #5
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Country: UK - England
Town: Midlands - Wolverhampton
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Engine: Evinrude 150
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 70
Well had a bit of a play tonight with a friend who knows his way around an engine but not sure what we've really learnt.

Compression tested the cylinders two at 110 and the other four at 105 so not a vast difference but not sure what there supposed to be. Engine still ran very rough but after revving it up it ran spot on at tick over for a couple of minutes then started missing again.

We pulled plug leads off with it running to try and find a pattern but couldn't really tell any difference so must be missing on more than one cylinder at random.

There is oil visible in four of the air intakes and were not sure where it's coming from, possibly coming back through from the pistons when there missing? Not sure if it's a coincidence or not but it's on the four cylinders that were 105 on the compression test, the two at 110 had no visible oil?

Hopefully will have the diagnostic cable parts tomorrow so will try and see what that tells us.

As usual if any of this gives anyone any ideas please let me know.

Cheers
Rob
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Old 14 July 2014, 18:53   #6
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Country: UK - England
Town: East
Boat name: Seaflyer
Make: Humber
Length: 6m +
Engine: Evinrude
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 199
Hi, Would help with a little bit more history - Have you just got this, are you familiar with ficht, has it been stood/winterised etc., do you know how to put the plugs in in relation to the injectors? The more we know the more likely we can point you in the right direction.
I know some people don't like them but I think they are fantastic engines starting first time every time.
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Old 14 July 2014, 19:03   #7
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Country: UK - England
Town: Midlands - Wolverhampton
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Engine: Evinrude 150
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 70
Hi

Ok bought the boat/engine late last year, took it for a sea trial when purchased and didn't seem to be any engine issues that I recall. Rewired all the aux electrics over the winter took it out for it's first run about 4 weeks ago and again it seemed to run ok for the first hour. So I guess it was stood for around 4 months, put fresh fuel in and it started first turn of the key. Hasn't been winterised that I know to.

After stopping and restarting the engine it developed the misfire.

Then had some starting problems which seem to have been cured with a new solenoid and removing the 60A circuit breaker which was on the main battery wire and I discovered it shouldn't have been. (I just hope the breaker on the main wire didn't do something nasty to the EMM when it tripped when the engine tried to start). The power has never been removed from the engine when it was running however.

I don't know a lot about engines or Ficht's really but do know that need very specific plugs and for them to be indexed correctly which I've done when I fitted new ones last week.

Hope this helps.
Cheers
Rob
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Old 15 July 2014, 14:43   #8
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Country: UK - England
Town: East
Boat name: Seaflyer
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Engine: Evinrude
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Posts: 199
Have you had the plugs out since it ran and misfired? Look at the colour to find out which pot is missing (should be pale chocolate colour).
Are you able to run the engine when it is dark to see if it sparking down the leads/plug porcelain/coil etc.
Far better to start with the cheap options and eliminate those first.
If you have a water/fuel filter between the tank and engine I would remove the filter and carefully pour the contents into a clear jar, it may be stale fuel that has reached the engine, worth checking.
If this does not cure it I will suggest some other things you can check.

Hope it works.
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Old 15 July 2014, 19:35   #9
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Country: UK - England
Town: Midlands - Wolverhampton
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Posts: 70
Thanks for the reply, I haven't run it in the dark so will try that tomorrow. I can't see it being stale fuel as I emptied the tank before filling it with fresh and have put about 40 litres through it so far.

We have tried all sorts today though so maybe some of this may help.

We've tested and correctly gapped the crank position sonsor. Tested the throttle position sensor, tested the water temp sensor. All seem ok. Cleaned up all earth connections and removed/cleaned coil packs/connections.

We've removed and cleaned the exhaust back pressure sensor as it didn't seem to be reading correctly and it turned out to be full of carbon build up and didn't look to ever have been removed! Unfortunately this didn't fix the problem.

With huge thanks to a fellow ribnetter (they know who they are) I've plugged in the diagnostic software today and found/done the following....

There are no logged fault codes except for three we intentionally triggered when testing things.
We checked the timing then performed the timing calibration in the diag software.
All plugs seem to fire when tested from the diag software.
All injectors click when tested from the diag software.

When the engine runs it missed for a while then seems to drop ok for a while then start missing again. If when the engine is missing you either disable the injector or pull the plug lead from cylinder 5 everything sounds much better. I'm not sure if this indicates a problem with cyl 5 though or whether this just drops the engine from 5 to 4 cylinders and balances everything out.

I say the above because if you pull the plug lead from cyl 5 then disable cyl 6 injector on the opposite side it makes NO difference to how the engine runs, almost as if no 6 cyl isn't firing at all! If you disable no 2 or 4 injector the engine stalls immediately! Ran out of light before I could test further disabling 1 and 3 to see what effect that had.

So to conclude it's almost as if no 6 isn't firing at all and the even things up you have to stop no 5 but what I don't understand is surely disabling 1 or 3 would have the same effect?

Either way all of this just helps along the way and we haven't actually found the problem yet......sigh

And if anyone has actually read all that is still with me, well done.....any ideas hugely appreciated at this stage.

Cheers
Rob
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Old 15 July 2014, 19:40   #10
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Country: UK - England
Town: Midlands - Wolverhampton
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Length: 6m +
Engine: Evinrude 150
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 70
Oh I forgot to add that I've read that all of the injector information, serial number, specs, tollerances etc. for all 6 injectors is stored in the EMM's config for it to make adjustments to engine running. This is done by the dealer when any injector/EMM changes are made.

Well NONE of the injector serial numbers stored in the EMM match the serial numbers on the injectors so I assume none of the individual injector configs is bang on either.

I'd assume from this that at some point the engine has either had a new EMM or 6 new injectors and this hasn't been done by an official dealer hence no injector files downloaded and put into EMM.

I don't know whether this could cause this much of a problem but you never know I guess?
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