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Old 04 January 2003, 07:18   #51
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Country: UK - England
Town: Great Harwood, Lancs
Boat name: Tigger II
Make: Bombardier Aerodeck
Length: 3m +
Engine: Tohatsu 25HP
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 626
Hi folks

As far as towing goes I have towed with quite a few vehicles.

I now use a Subaru Impreza, and its great.
2L engine with loads of torque, 4 wheel drive which have never failed even on really steep slippy slips, optional low ratio box option, giving a very low gear and you can shift if while driving.(10 gears in total + 2 reverse)

All this toghther with a car that handles like the dogs "bits".

Even with this though i would not like to have pulled anything bigger then about 6M.

The only down side is the insurance and the vehicle is a bit light at 1280Kg.
On the issue of weight, its never recomended to tow anything heavier then the towing vehicle and some people say only upto 80% of the towing vehicles weight.

A question for whitingiom though in the UK the max limit for unbraked is 750Kg is it different in the IOM?.


Happy new year everyone
Gary
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Old 04 January 2003, 13:02   #52
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Country: Greece
Town: Gloucetsreshire
Boat name: GATO DI MARE
Make: MAR.CO
Length: 9m +
Engine: Yamaha 200Vmax
MMSI: 235027678
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,339
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Chris

I have tests (in Greek) of all those engines you are talking about with consumprion curves, performance on a 6.5 mtr RIB with various props. The test also advises on RIB weight sea state and many other factrs that affect acceleration, cruising and top end speed. I'm off tomorrow for 3 weeks on bizs to Greece and Egypt. As is a holiday in Greece on Monday (Epiphany) I will try to translate as much as I can and post some info in your thread with photos too.

To add something on what JK told you in his last communication is that in basic Naval Engineering/Architecture you learn that the increase in BHP (after a point) does not mean proportionate increase on hull speed (that is on ships, displacement small craft i.e. sailing yachts, Motor Boats etc).
However, the same principal similarly applies on fast planing hulls such as RIBs. I think that you top end speed (due to hull constraints allone) if you have a 200 bhp instead of 150 bhp on board will be the same (give or take 2-3 knots max) . However, what you would actually gain if you go for a bigger engine that is, is pull/faster acceleration and power in bad weather or whenever you need it. At cruising speeds (i.e. between 20-28 knots) you will find that on both motors revs will be more or less on the same level.
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Old 04 January 2003, 20:19   #53
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Country: UK - Scotland
Make: HumberOceanOffshore
Length: 8m +
Engine: Volvo KAD300/DPX
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,962
I am not quite sure why the 150 and 200 should have the same fuel consumption, even if they are the same 2.5 litre block. I should have thought that the greater HP would come from slurping more fuel, or is it that at a given cruising speed, the same amount of energy is needed to drive the prop shaft, so an identical amount of fuel is needed?

Chris, yeh, I agree with JK. who confirmed what you guessed. For a given type of engine, the efficiency is approx the same. To move x amount of weight you require y amout of energy. Therefore, because the efficiencies are similar, you use about the
I'm running out of word space..... continued below
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Old 04 January 2003, 20:30   #54
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Country: UK - Scotland
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same amount of fuel, no matter what the horse power, for a given load/speed. Of course, 200hp will let you go faster than 150. This will require more energy so you’ll use more fuel. The new 2 strokes (optimax etc.) use about the same fuel as the old 2 strokes when at or close to full throttle. But, at part throttle, the old units waste more fuel through the exhaust port. However, the differences are worth having but they’re not earth shattering. You might pick up a new old tech fuel injected 200 for around £4000 but you are likely to pay in excess of £8000 for a new Opti or Ficht. £4000 buys a lot of fuel, especially when it is only the difference in consumption you need take into account. A good, fuel injected, old tech motor will tick over all day and is faily smoke free too.
I've 6.5mtr with lots of gear, which makes it pretty heavy, and it is driven by a 2.7 ltr V6 Suzuki 200. It does 52 mph flat out and, in a force 3, will cruise all day at 38 - 42 mph. At cruising is does, almost exactly, 4mpg. These are statute miles.
JW.
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Old 05 January 2003, 10:05   #55
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Country: UK - Channel Islands
Boat name: Seahound
Make: Scorpion Sportscruiser
Length: 9.50m
Engine: 2 x 200 Evinrude Ficht
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 39
I am interested in buying a couple of yam 200 hpdi or 200 ficht's from abroad and importing. Does anyone have contact addresses for reliable dealers ? and what prices should i expect to pay.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 05 January 2003, 11:39   #56
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Country: UK - England
Town: West Wickham
Boat name: Aries IV
Make: Scorpion
Length: 8m +
Engine: Etec 250
MMSI: 235036477
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 273
Hi Steve,

I can't help with the contacts and you probably have different Customs arrangements in Alderney, but for anyone thinking of importing to the UK, the following might be useful:

I spoke to HM Customs at the Boat Show yesterday and was advised that in order to establish duty payable on an engine (or anything else for that matter) that is imported into the UK, we need to:

a) Establish the "CIF" value (Cost + Insurance + Freight). This is the amount on which any duty would be payable.

b) Obtain a "tariff number". This is a ten-digit number and may be obtained (so I have been advised) by telephoning 01702 366 077.
It is possible that the person might let you know the percentage of duty payable, but you will probably have to go to step (c) for this.

c) Call the National Information number 0845 010 9000, who will match up the tariff number with a rate of duty payable.

NOTE: VAT will then be payable on the entire amount - (CIF + Duty).

In certain circumstances, the rate of duty might be reduced (possibly to zero) if you can obtain a "preference document" from the country of manufacture but only if it is also the one that you are importing from. This may well apply to developing countries, for example. Further investigation would be needed to establish this in any particular case.

I hope that this info will be useful to someone!

Chris.
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Old 05 January 2003, 11:54   #57
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Country: UK - England
Town: Blackpool
Boat name: To Exi
Make: new sib 4 man
Length: 8+ft
Engine: Mariner 4hp long shaft
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,012
The above post is correct exept it works out at Cost of item + insurance costs+ freight costs+import duty Total + 17.5% VAT all added up,GIVES YOU THE TOTAL COST OF ITEM.

For the U.K .

n.b Channel islands the same excluding 17.5%Vat.

Regardes Crazyhorse
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Old 05 January 2003, 11:57   #58
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Country: Canada
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A bit more on the joys of international trade.......

Chris is right that duty is paid on the "landed" price of goods into UK so including shipping charges and VAT of course on top of that. There is a tariff code in existence for just about anything you can think of down to the most minute detail so there will be one that covers "outboard engines". The preference certificates that he mentions are concerned with fostering easy trading relationships with certain countries. For example on certain goods the company I work for is able to pay zero duty on products manufactured in China. As far as buying an outboard (or two) abroad then you are likely to have to pay 5-10% duty plus the dreaded VAT.

In my mind there are two ways of going about purchasing outboards or any really expensive piece of kit overseas - 1) source it yourself and find a good freight forwarder who can arrange shipment and sort out all the customs stuff for you (for a fee of course) or 2) find one of the companies around who already import grey outboards. I am sure that on point 2 Manos should be able to help with his contacts in South Africa. Another potential source for grey outboards is http://www.outboardsdirect.co.uk/ (Note I have no experience of their service good or bad)

Assuming Steve that your Seahound is Chris Stricklands old Scorpion with the twin Promax 300's then I can see why you might want to replace with more fuel efficient units!! Chris once told me how much per mile the boat cost to run. I fell off my chair!

HTH, Alan
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Old 05 January 2003, 12:29   #59
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Country: UK - England
Town: Blackpool
Boat name: To Exi
Make: new sib 4 man
Length: 8+ft
Engine: Mariner 4hp long shaft
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,012
If your purchasing a outboard then buying 25% over your hp requirments will be the most economical for running costs go.The down being purchase price.

As you may be aware that any engine backed off by approximatley a 3rd will run at its most fuel efficencient for power required.

So a 200hp will be more fuel efficient backed off to a third throttle than a 150hp at its peak reves giving the same speed and power.

If you dont run with the idea of speaking to Hugo for a unbiased opinion,instead of personal ones then as a rule of thumb is over power so as to under rev and you will get longevity and fuel consumption.

I personaly havnt followed whats happening in the outboard marketplace for over a yr, but would definatley ask them that know,including JK which way would he jump.

Good luck Crazyhorse
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Old 05 January 2003, 12:58   #60
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Country: UK - England
Town: Hamble
Length: 9m +
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Engine costs

A few months ago, when I was looking to buy a new outboard, I was quoted £4850 + vat for an Optimax 150 from a dealer in Europe. Every year he does a deal with Marine Power in Belgium for a killer price on one model of Merc Outboard. I don't know what this years model is but will find out if anybody is interested.

No duty to pay, and he is only a couple of hours from the Channel Tunnel!
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