How much fluid should there be in the steering?

gotchiguy · 04 April 2010, 09:21

Just a quick question - I undid the little cap on the steering column today (the hydraulic fluid reservoir) to check the level because the steering has been a little heavy recently I felt.

Looking at it, it appears that its about an inch below the filler hole, is this right or should there be more? I do have a little bottle of fluid that I can add, but I don't want to overfill it!

(I have Parker Parflex pipework and I think a teleflex steering wheel, but I'm not absolutely sure!

Many thanks

Chris · 04 April 2010, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotchiguy

Just a quick question - I undid the little cap on the steering column today (the hydraulic fluid reservoir) to check the level because the steering has been a little heavy recently I felt.

Looking at it, it appears that its about an inch below the filler hole, is this right or should there be more? I do have a little bottle of fluid that I can add, but I don't want to overfill it!

(I have Parker Parflex pipework and I think a teleflex steering wheel, but I'm not absolutely sure!

Many thanks

I think Roy always fits the Ultraflex steering systems, in which case the level of fluid should be just below the hole. However if you were runnign low on fluid the effect would not be to make the steering heavy but instead it would intrduce air and you would hear and feel air pockets in the system.

If your steering is heavy you may need to look elswhere such as greasing up the engine bracket grease nipples with Evinrude Triple Guard grease.

Poly · 04 April 2010, 09:31

When it comes to hydraulic steering its important to fix problems. If it has lost fluid then you have a leak somewhere which needs fixing, not just topping up.

Chris · 04 April 2010, 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

When it comes to hydraulic steering its important to fix problems. If it has lost fluid then you have a leak somewhere which needs fixing, not just topping up.

Unlikely if its an inch below the hole that is quite normal after a few months use as all the remaining air has worked its way out.

If the steering is stiff then more likey there are other problems.

Poly · 04 April 2010, 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Unlikely if its an inch below the hole that is quite normal after a few months use as all the remaining air has worked its way out.

I'm not sure how big the resevoir is - but that sounds like quite a lot of air to find its way out of a well bled system. Of course it might have been that low a few months ago - as from Gotchiguy's question he obviously doesn't know where "full" is / was.

Quote:

If the steering is stiff then more likey there are other problems.

Possibly - although one person's heavy is another's spongy! The girl in that MAIB report I linked to described the steering as difficult and tiring. If Gotchiguy had a lot of experience debugging hydraulics he presumably wouldn't be on here asking for advice. My point was really not to keep topping it up as there must be a leak that needs fixed. But you are quite right the problem may well not be on the oil side of the system - especially if its been sitting for a few months over winter all seizing up.

Chris · 04 April 2010, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

I'm not sure how big the resevoir is - but that sounds like quite a lot of air to find its way out of a well bled system. Of course it might have been that low a few months ago - as from Gotchiguy's question he obviously doesn't know where "full" is / was.

Possibly - although one person's heavy is another's spongy! The girl in that MAIB report I linked to described the steering as difficult and tiring. If Gotchiguy had a lot of experience debugging hydraulics he presumably wouldn't be on here asking for advice. My point was really not to keep topping it up as there must be a leak that needs fixed. But you are quite right the problem may well not be on the oil side of the system - especially if its been sitting for a few months over winter all seizing up.

I have the same system on my Osprey and after the first year of use the level had dropped a little. It is quite common after the first few months for the last bubbles of trapped air to make their way up to the reservoir and Gotchi's boat is exaclty a year old so this is the most likely explanation.

Hightower · 04 April 2010, 17:38

I found that during hot days the fluid would weep out of the fill hole as it expanded. Perhaps this could explain a slight drop in fluid level too? If in doubt fill it up! Much better than getting air in the system. You can't do any damage by overfilling it, but it will leave an oily puddle on the floor or on the console, so be warned.

willk · 04 April 2010, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightower

but it will leave an oily puddle on the floor or on the console, so be warned.

Yes, it will...

Tricky to clean up too.

gotchiguy · 04 April 2010, 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightower

You can't do any damage by overfilling it, but it will leave an oily puddle on the floor or on the console, so be warned.

Thanks for the advice

I topped it up earlier (upon closer inspection it was only about a 1/2 inch in fact, I only glanced at it the other day. It seems to have made a little difference to the weighting, but nothing dramatic, I think I just need to play with the trim when in port at slow speeds, it seems to affect the steering quick significantly.

Cheers muchly for the advice, and I agree, sound advice from Polwart, a stark reminder of the worst possible outcome from steering failure.

Hightower · 05 April 2010, 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotchiguy

Thanks for the advice

I topped it up earlier (upon closer inspection it was only about a 1/2 inch in fact, I only glanced at it the other day. It seems to have made a little difference to the weighting, but nothing dramatic, I think I just need to play with the trim when in port at slow speeds, it seems to affect the steering quick significantly.

Cheers muchly for the advice, and I agree, sound advice from Polwart, a stark reminder of the worst possible outcome from steering failure.

A little tip I learn't was to tie a length of rag around the steering helm/pump. That way is soaks up any oil leaking out the filler.

As for the steering torq. You could try adjusting the trim tab just behind the prop and see if you can make things a little easier for yourself.

jyasaki · 05 April 2010, 16:13

If it's a Seastar helm (I assume Baystar is the same), the recommended level depends on how its mounted (one position requires a level a bit below the fill hole, as I recall, but I don't remember which as it didn't apply to me.) In general, though, you fill the thing up to just below the point it would run out of the filler hole.

As to effort vs fill level, you won't notice any difference in steering effort until the level drops low enough that the pump suck air into the lines; at that point, you will get either a very light effort with little steering effect, or you'll get a jerky movement of the motor (and a substantial amount of feedback to the wheel) as the air compresses, the motor moves and releases pressure, then the air compresses again.

The relevant manuals can be found on the Seastar website at:
http://www.teleflexmarine.com/cgi-bi...=int&page=1003

jky

gotchiguy · 05 April 2010, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightower

As for the steering torq. You could try adjusting the trim tab just behind the prop and see if you can make things a little easier for yourself.

No trim tab on HOs

But she runs beautifully straight and true already

Only managing 49knts so far though

I think I need to be more bold trimming up! Acceleration is PHE-NOM-IN-AL however

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyasaki

As to effort vs fill level, you won't notice any difference in steering effort until the level drops low enough that the pump suck air into the lines; at that point, you will get either a very light effort with little steering effect, or you'll get a jerky movement of the motor (and a substantial amount of feedback to the wheel) as the air compresses, the motor moves and releases pressure, then the air compresses again.

jky

Thanks for your advice, I have done a bit more playing around today and it really all is down to the trim setting. There can be less than a second of trim operation between it being as light as a feather and very heavy. In port it just needs a bit of adjustment.

Mollers · 05 April 2010, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotchiguy

No trim tab on HOs

But she runs beautifully straight and true already

Only managing 49knts so far though

Keep trimming, the non HO will be keeping you at bay at those speeds.

gotchiguy · 05 April 2010, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollers

Keep trimming, the non HO will be keeping you at bay at those speeds.

That would be an absolute disaster! But that has been in rough conditions with wrong trim and in fairly rough conditions.

It has been pretty damn rough the few times I've made it out this week due to the wind yesterday I was having to go very slowly

Tuesday was OK for cruising speeds though ~72nm round trip burned 110 litres so not too bad (average only 25/30knts -second time in boat!!-) However the float gauge seems pretty useless I think I'll have to get a memory module which I think you all have already?

I have also been amazed at how little oil its used, I've done over a 125nm
this week and theres no obvious lowering of the tank, very good!