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Old 18 October 2009, 17:08   #21
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Again the saga continues.
All of the below proves you have no idea what you are getting when you buy a used engine.

The bearing carrier certainly wouldnít come out without a puller.
I made one with arms of 8mm round bar, which just straightened out when put under load, so I had to weld webs to them to strengthen them. Itís not pretty, but it did the job eventually after warming the casing up with a blow lamp and a few sharp taps of the hammer. I can assure you the welding looks better in real life than it does in the attached image.

The first thing I noticed was that the internals didnít match my spare set, and that somebody had been in there before - The key that holds the bearing carrier in the correct orientation, and one of the oil seals were missing.
But the dogs on the back of the reverse gear are completely unmarked, and the dog clutch itself doesnít look anywhere near bad enough to cause the problem. Itís good enough that I can take the damaged edges off it with a stone and reuse it.
However there was a lot of thick black sludge in the bottom of the case that could have been affecting the gear change mechanism. Iím surprised this is in there, as I drained decent looking oil out of the unit when I started, and I change it every year. There must be a certain amount of oil that sits too low to come out of the drain hole, and the sludge has built up over the years.

Iíve spent a bit of time this evening looking at parts lists and exploded diagrams as I was confused that the internals didnít match my spare set.

When I first picked the engine up 4yrs ago it had a split in the bullet of the gear case, but amazingly I managed to pick up a used unit that I was told came off a late carbed model. It fitted so I used it, and I stripped the internals out of the original unit to keep as spares. These parts matched the parts in the exploded diagram for my 1998EFI engine that I downloaded from the Browns Point Suzuki website, so I thought no more about it.

Looking at my Genuine Suzuki workshop manual today Iíve discovered that the gearbox internals changed in 1991 for the ĎMí model, 7 years before my 1998EFI engine. But crucially the internals Iíve just stripped out of the current unit are correct for a post 1991 engine.

Iíve concluded the following.
-The Diagram and Parts list brought up on the Browns Point Suzuki website for my 1998 engine are incorrect. My Genuine Suzuki Workshop manual shows these to be for a pre 1991 engine.

-The Gearbox internals that were in the engine when I brought it were from an older pre-1991 engine.

-The replacement unit I picked up 4yrs ago had the correct internals for my engine, but has been opened up before for some reason.

-When I drain the oil in future Iíll tilt the engine backwards and forwards to hopefully get more of the old oil out.

Iím going to clean everything up, replace all the oil seals and ĎOí Rings, and put it back together when I get the replacement Stopper ring Iíve ordered.
Iíll strip and clean the change mechanism, to ensure its working correctly.
As Iím reusing all the current parts I shouldnít need to re-shim it.

Nasher.
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Old 18 October 2009, 17:14   #22
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I think its great how nothing gets in your way and you just make a tool to do the job, good luck with the box mate.
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Old 18 October 2009, 17:21   #23
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So, what do you reckon is the cause of losing reverse gear?
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Old 18 October 2009, 17:24   #24
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Thanks Chewy.

I have to admit that I enjoy this type of thing far too much for it to be healthy.

The thought that Outboard engineers charge @£50 an hour also helps.

Nasher.
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Old 18 October 2009, 17:27   #25
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Originally Posted by Downhilldai View Post
So, what do you reckon is the cause of losing reverse gear?
I'm hoping a combination of removing the sludge, taking the edges off the Dog Clutch, and making sure the internal mechanism for the change is in tip top condition will sort it.

If that doesn't work I'm a bit stuck at the moment, but at least I'll know the gearbox is in good shape.

Nasher.
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Old 18 October 2009, 17:30   #26
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Hmmm, odd one. I was almost certain your clutch dog and gear would be worn out.
Good luck with the rebuild.
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Old 27 October 2009, 16:32   #27
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All

Please ignore my previous major post, it was complete Bollocks

Embarrassingly I had everything Arse about Face.

Something just wasnít making sense to me, and I wasnít comfortable with what I was doing, so I went back to first principles.
Very significantly this was partly because I was missing Reverse gear, yet the dog clutch for reverse looked a lot better than the Forward gear end.

This time I took more notice of the description of the Ďnew for 1991í gearbox internals in the genuine Suzuki manual I have.
The penny dropped when I found one line of text. This line states that Ďa new Counter Rotating gearbox was developed for 1991í, there is then 12 pages of detail without the counter rotating bit being mentioned. -

So basically Browns Point website was correct, and Iíve been running a counter rotating gearbox in reverse with a standard prop for the last few years. The mistake probably happened as I changed the control lever at the same time as the gearbox, and worked backwards from the Prop to decide which way to assemble the insides of the control box.

The reverse gear internals of the CR box are the same as those for forward on the std box, and the forward gear internals are beefed up versions of the std reverse, the differences include extra thrust bearings, bigger shaft sizes and a different Dog Clutch shifter because of the shaft size.
The Dog Clutch Shifter is stronger for the CR Forward than CR reverse, so Iíve been lucky itís lasted, but it is concentric about its middle, so I can just turn it 180degs and will end up with a box which is as strong, if not stronger, as a std box in what Iím using as forward, but stronger than a std box in what Iím using as reverse.

It also explains why the Dog Clutch was damaged, as the bigger dogs donít have as much room to drop into mesh when Iím crashing into reverse.

However Iíve been trying to order the unique to the CR gearbox Dog Clutch Shifter.
From a brief internet search I discovered two US distributers who list the part, and have quoted delivery from the US to my door in the UK in @5-7days for a total cost of @£90.

I contacted 3 local dealers, they could not find the part number, and so did not want to help. One did agree that they could not find a parts list for the counter rotating gearbox, and that ďit must be on thereĒ. Having waited 3 days for them to contact Suzuki UK I decided to contact a dealer further afield for help.

www.imsupplies.co.uk have been very helpful, however they are now being held up by Suzuki UKs apathy

They too could not find the part Number, but like me found it on the Browns Point Suzuki website, so contacted Suzuki UK on my behalf to enquire about sourcing it.
They and I were surprised by the reaction they received.
They were told the part was not on the Suzuki UK system, but it could be added, this would take 1 week, and only then would they be able to order it. They were then given a price of £200 to pass on to me.

Obviously Iím going to be placing an order with Browns point later tonight, and Iíve sent Suzuki UK a snotty email.

In the mean time Iíve cleaned everything up and made a special tool to wind the retaining ring back in.
I did consider machining the old Dog Clutch Shifter, but realised Iíd have to be really accurate, and itís probably case hardened anyway.

More to come

Nasher
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Old 27 October 2009, 16:49   #28
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Amazing! A ran a LH prop on a RH Merc Alpha One outdrive for about 6Nm and wrecked the bearing carrier.
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Old 27 October 2009, 16:52   #29
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Amazing! A ran a LH prop on a RH Merc Alpha One outdrive for about 6Nm and wrecked the bearing carrier.
Hay are those Etecs left hookers. could explain the bearing life
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Old 27 October 2009, 16:54   #30
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Hay are those Etecs left hookers. could explain the bearing life
You'll be getting a left hook if you don't belt-up!
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