Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 31 December 2011, 08:47   #1
RIBnet supporter
 
C2 RIBS's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Hants
Boat name: Gemineye
Make: Ribeye S850 charter
Length: 8m +
Engine: 300hp
MMSI: 235097445
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,029
Commercial on line examination issue

As most are now aware as of the beginning of April 2012 all new applicants for commercial endorsements will also now have to sit an on line examination, as well as all of us with commercial endorsements we will need to sit the exam on each renewal (i.e every five years).

Today I met with a colleague who operates commercially a large cruiser and has done so for over twenty years, but due to his age he has an annual medical and also this means he has to apply each year for the commercial endorsement.

Firstly does anyone know if he will have to sit the on line exam every year or will that pass last for five years but just needing his annual medical and forms as he believes he will need to sit the exam every year!

Secondly he hates computers and has either a family member or accountant do all his on line work, applications, fuel reclaims etc etc. So what will be on offer to help him should he decide to stay commercial to sit this exam which the RYA have told us is up to 4hrs.

Safe to say he is a very able skipper and very knowleagble but he is honestly thinking of jacking in his love of boats and meeting people due to this latest drive of the RYA. He understands it is designed to ensure skippers can show knowledge etc etc but the need for an on line exam may mean we lose a very able and qualified skipper. Can anyone explain for me what the RYA can offer him so I can pass on the info. Thank you
__________________
Ian
Rib charter and Rib hire with www.c2ribs.co.uk
C2 RIBS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 December 2011, 09:38   #2
CJL
Member
 
CJL's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: London
Make: Ribcrafts
Length: 5m +
Engine: 150hp/2x115hp
MMSI: 235090215
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,115
RIBase
Send a message via Skype™ to CJL
Crazy!

I hope you find an alternative to this as you can't impose something like this without offering alternative arrangements.

What happens if you don't have a computer and can't get access to one??

CPD seems to be the latest trend for all and sundry! My operators have to do a similar type of thing but at least they do it at a Driving Test Centre in your local town. That said it is not particularly challenging but I have had a lot of complaints that it takes a member of staff out of work for pretty much a full day.

I would be interested to see how you get on with it all.

Chris
__________________

__________________
www.northernexposurerescue.org.uk
A registered charity supporting events across England and Wales
Follow us on Vimeo and Facebook
CJL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 December 2011, 10:06   #3
RIBnet supporter
 
C2 RIBS's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Hants
Boat name: Gemineye
Make: Ribeye S850 charter
Length: 8m +
Engine: 300hp
MMSI: 235097445
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJL View Post
Crazy!

I hope you find an alternative to this as you can't impose something like this without offering alternative arrangements.

What happens if you don't have a computer and can't get access to one??

CPD seems to be the latest trend for all and sundry! My operators have to do a similar type of thing but at least they do it at a Driving Test Centre in your local town. That said it is not particularly challenging but I have had a lot of complaints that it takes a member of staff out of work for pretty much a full day.

I would be interested to see how you get on with it all.

Chris
Hi Chris, some of this is sorted, as the computer on line will be sat at an RYA recognised school and the school take some part of the fee for overseeing/ running I believe. The exam will have links where to find answers so this will aid everyone.
The main issue for me is concern for someone who may not be so able to use the computer as this other operator identified and he has clearly been around much longer than me in the charter world, it would be a sad day if the system set up to ensure higher knowledge and standards fails even one person
__________________
Ian
Rib charter and Rib hire with www.c2ribs.co.uk
C2 RIBS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 December 2011, 18:35   #4
Member
 
Doug Stormforce's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Southampton
Boat name: Yoda & Obi Wan
Make: Valiant 750 & XS600
Length: 7m +
Engine: 150, 115 HP
MMSI: Various
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJL View Post
Crazy!........ What happens if you don't have a computer and can't get access to one?
Yes I would say that's pretty crazy in the modern world.


Quote:
Originally Posted by C2 RIBS View Post
As most are now aware as of the beginning of April 2012 all new applicants for commercial endorsements will also now have to sit an on line examination, as well as all of us with commercial endorsements we will need to sit the exam on each renewal (i.e every five years).

Today I met with a colleague who operates commercially a large cruiser and has done so for over twenty years, but due to his age he has an annual medical and also this means he has to apply each year for the commercial endorsement.

Firstly does anyone know if he will have to sit the on line exam every year or will that pass last for five years but just needing his annual medical and forms as he believes he will need to sit the exam every year!

Secondly he hates computers and has either a family member or accountant do all his on line work, applications, fuel reclaims etc etc. So what will be on offer to help him should he decide to stay commercial to sit this exam which the RYA have told us is up to 4hrs.

Safe to say he is a very able skipper and very knowleagble but he is honestly thinking of jacking in his love of boats and meeting people due to this latest drive of the RYA. He understands it is designed to ensure skippers can show knowledge etc etc but the need for an on line exam may mean we lose a very able and qualified skipper. Can anyone explain for me what the RYA can offer him so I can pass on the info. Thank you
Ian, I dont think the plan is for everyone to repeat the course every time they re validate. I think the plan is that new commercial endorsements will need to take the course from 1 April and the rest of us will have to do it next time we revalidate. Within 5 yrs everyone will have then done it. (this is my understanding and not actually written in black and white, so you cant hold me to it).

As an aside i have spent the last few of weeks playing with the pilot version of the course. I am pleased to report that while some will find the subject matter pretty dry the course is very thorough. Many of the questions that get asked on here by new and experienced skippers alike are within the course content. It really concentrates on teaching you where to find the relevant information rather than learning hundreds of regulations.

This is a good development for the commercial endorsement and if we have to drag a few people kicking and screaming into the year 2012 and encourage them to accept that computers are part of modern life then I guess that is what will happen! There is nothing that says a friend or Instructor can't help you set up the login etc. Beyond that it's no more scary that using a chart plotter you are unfamiliar with. I assume anyone taking the PPR course would have the confidence to tackle a new chart plotter!!!
__________________
STORMFORCE COACHING
web - www.stormforce.biz
email - coaching@stormforce.biz
tel - 02380 231122
Doug Stormforce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 January 2012, 11:29   #5
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: NW& wherever the boat is!
Boat name: depends on m'mood!
Make: Humbers/15-24m cats
Length: 6m +
Engine: etec130/big volvos
MMSI: many and various
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,815
Quote:
this means he has to apply each year for the commercial endorsement
over 65s will no longer have to re-apply every year for the endorsement from what I have read of it
__________________
Dave M
www.wavelengthtraining.co.uk
wavelength is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 January 2012, 11:39   #6
RIBnet supporter
 
C2 RIBS's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Hants
Boat name: Gemineye
Make: Ribeye S850 charter
Length: 8m +
Engine: 300hp
MMSI: 235097445
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavelength View Post
over 65s will no longer have to re-apply every year for the endorsement from what I have read of it
This is the area I need to confirm for a friend. If he renews the commercial endorsement and can sit one exam which lasts for a five year period we may see a good skipper stay working. Is this documented anywhere?
__________________
Ian
Rib charter and Rib hire with www.c2ribs.co.uk
C2 RIBS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 January 2012, 11:58   #7
RIBnet supporter
 
C2 RIBS's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Hants
Boat name: Gemineye
Make: Ribeye S850 charter
Length: 8m +
Engine: 300hp
MMSI: 235097445
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce View Post


I dont think the plan is for everyone to repeat the course every time they re validate. I think the plan is that new commercial endorsements will need to take the course from 1 April and the rest of us will have to do it next time we revalidate. Within 5 yrs everyone will have then done it. (this is my understanding and not actually written in black and white, so you cant hold me to it).


This is a good development for the commercial endorsement and if we have to drag a few people kicking and screaming into the year 2012 and encourage them to accept that computers are part of modern life then I guess that is what will happen! There is nothing that says a friend or Instructor can't help you set up the login etc. Beyond that it's no more scary that using a chart plotter you are unfamiliar with. I assume anyone taking the PPR course would have the confidence to tackle a new chart plotter!!!
Doug from my understanding after a training day where Richard Falk Chief examiner RYA gave us the low down on the PPR, it is certainly his understanding we will need to re-sit every five years to renew our commercial certification. He stated that all new skippers seeking commercial endorsements from April 2012 will need to take the PPR and everyone renewing from then on will have to take the PPR each renewal before any endorsement is issued, which would then have any new developments and updates included. A new pre course book was to be issued this January.

I agree with your comments above about a good development but have a different view about dragging a few people into 2012. I believe in equal opportunities for everyone and the suggestion that we drag some along is a little short sighted as many will have all the skills beyond a lot of us and maybe due to their learning skills or age find computers hard work and this is why I would like to see the RYA being pro-active helping the smaller number who will find this system hard and could even fail. We need to encourage training(your forte) not force it on people. The RYA expect some to fail and could not explain what would be done to help those indviduals beyond a second PPR test.
__________________
Ian
Rib charter and Rib hire with www.c2ribs.co.uk
C2 RIBS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 January 2012, 13:35   #8
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: NW& wherever the boat is!
Boat name: depends on m'mood!
Make: Humbers/15-24m cats
Length: 6m +
Engine: etec130/big volvos
MMSI: many and various
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,815
from training centres' update that came with our recognition cert in the last week
Quote:
Over 65s no longer have to renew their commercial endorsements annually - it is now only required every 5 years. However, over 65s must retain a current medical at all times
hope that helps
__________________
Dave M
www.wavelengthtraining.co.uk
wavelength is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 January 2012, 13:52   #9
RIBnet supporter
 
C2 RIBS's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Hants
Boat name: Gemineye
Make: Ribeye S850 charter
Length: 8m +
Engine: 300hp
MMSI: 235097445
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavelength View Post
from training centres' update that came with our recognition cert in the last week


hope that helps
Excellent start thank you.

I have studied the RYA link to this new PPR which is available here-
Professional Practices and Responsibilities | Professional Qualifications | Learning | Courses & Training | RYA

and HERE

Commercial Endorsements | Professional Qualifications | Learning | Courses & Training | RYA


This sets out the background and prices etc.

It states "The course will cover the legal requirements, regulations, guidance and processes for managing the vessel and its crew. From April 2012 this will become a pre-requisite for anyone applying for their first commercial endorsement, and for those renewing their endorsement"

The next move on from this is to remove a commercial endorsement at PB2 level and only allow an endorsement starting at Intermediate course level which would allow then restricted water work and keeping the advanced commercial endorsement as it stands for a while before further changes.

I am sure corrections will follow from schools involved in the process but this was the discussion recently
__________________
Ian
Rib charter and Rib hire with www.c2ribs.co.uk
C2 RIBS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 January 2012, 18:57   #10
Member
 
Country: USA
Town: Torrance
Length: no boat
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 332
Thread drift but does this just stink of another way for the RYA (after all a 'business') to make more money out of issuing/reissuing a CoC? Or am I just being extra cynical today?

They already charge for the issue and renewal of the certificate now. Do the MCA retest Masters/Mate/OOW every five years when renewing?

SDG
__________________

__________________
Compass Deliveries
SDGANDER is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.