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Old 10 August 2006, 08:12   #1
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Just pick this up on another forum

< Edit: See page three of this thread for the outcome! JK >

I thought this may be of interest

Jon

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"Gareth Davies MSc. MIL.

Principal Environmental Health Practitioner (Consultation & Licensing)

Tel: (01983) 823169

Fax: (01983) 529804

E-mail: gareth.davies@iow.gov.uk

Gareth,

Further to a useful discussion today, with your colleague – Karen, who was extremely helpful in pointing out the rulings of the Solent Standing Committee, could I please draw your attention to their document issued 16th June 1994, concerning vessels carrying up to 12 passengers.

This document, in ‘Section VIII’ and in the ‘Annex – Manning’, clearly states that there are exemptions to your Boatmans’ Licence, if the individual concerned holds as minimum a RYA/Dot Coastal Skipper Certificate. As an additional requirement, this should be ‘commercially endorsed’ to satisfy all the others factors such as medical certificate, VHF Licence, Sea survival certificate, First aid certificate.

Could you please confirm, that if such certificates or higher are held, there is no requirement for a Boatman’s Licence to be held in addition.

Regards

Alan"

A copy of my e-mail to Gareth Davies, shown above, resulted in a verbal reply (e-mail awaited), in which he stated that irrespective of any other qualifications, even those given as 'exemptions', anyone 'in-charge' of a vessel carrying paying passengers (additionally explained as passengers on a charter or sea school vessel), must hold a local authority Boatmans Licence.

He, as the enforcing officer, issues licences for vessels entering Cowes Harbour. Any Skipper not holding such a licence, is breaking the law under the appropriate Public Health Act dated 1907.

Anyone not so licenced, may also be in breach of any insurance cover, should any 'incident' occur!

This I tried to explain, would require almost every commercially endorsed Skipper to apply individually to every local authority covered by the Solent Standing Committee. His responce was to the affect that it was his responsibility to apply the law, not decide it.
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Old 10 August 2006, 08:24   #2
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Hmm, bargin, at £138 each off to Google the Solent Standing Committee, never heard of them. Wonder what the RYA would have to say about this and there professional qualifications, or is this just a new ploy for the fraggle rock lot to fleece some extra money out of peeps.

Pete
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Old 10 August 2006, 08:26   #3
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Commercial Endorsements declared invalid by IOW Public Health!

< Edit: Repeated info because I merged two threads. As It originated from Alan I've left this post rather than deleting it! JK >

e-mail copy

"Gareth Davies MSc. MIL.

Principal Environmental Health Practitioner (Consultation & Licensing)

Tel: (01983) 823169

Fax: (01983) 529804

E-mail: gareth.davies@iow.gov.uk

Gareth,

Further to a useful discussion today, with your colleague – Karen, who was extremely helpful in pointing out the rulings of the Solent Standing Committee, could I please draw your attention to their document issued 16th June 1994, concerning vessels carrying up to 12 passengers.

This document, in ‘Section VIII’ and in the ‘Annex – Manning’, clearly states that there are exemptions to your Boatmans’ Licence, if the individual concerned holds as minimum a RYA/Dot Coastal Skipper Certificate. As an additional requirement, this should be ‘commercially endorsed’ to satisfy all the others factors such as medical certificate, VHF Licence, Sea survival certificate, First aid certificate.

Could you please confirm, that if such certificates or higher are held, there is no requirement for a Boatman’s Licence to be held in addition.

Regards

Alan"

__________________________________________________ _

A copy of my e-mail to Gareth Davies, shown above, resulted in a verbal reply (e-mail awaited), in which he stated that irrespective of any other qualifications, even those given as 'exemptions', anyone 'in-charge' of a vessel carrying paying passengers (additionally explained as passengers on a charter or sea school vessel), must hold a local authority Boatmans Licence.

He, as the enforcing officer, issues licences for vessels entering Cowes Harbour. Any Skipper not holding such a licence, is breaking the law under the appropriate Public Health Act dated 1907.

Anyone not so licenced, may also be in breach of any insurance cover, should any 'incident' occur!

This I tried to explain, would require almost every commercially endorsed Skipper to apply individually to every local authority covered by the Solent Standing Committee. His responce was to the affect that it was his responsibility to apply the law, not decide it.
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Old 10 August 2006, 08:38   #4
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Sorry Alan

If I read it right and please correct me if wrong if you run a powerboat school either based on or visiting the IOW you must have their boatman licence?

On the Thames I know you must have a boatman licence for passengers but did not think you did as a school.

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Old 10 August 2006, 09:02   #5
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Boatmans Licence

Hi Jon,
Any vessel operating in Cowes (not necessarily based there), must be licenced - by them or coded appropriately by MCA. This seems sensible.

However, under his enterpretation of the Solent Standing Committee rules, anyone "in charge" of the vessel, must hold their Boatman's Licence. This is irrespective of any other qualifications they might hold.
I suggested that this applied to almost all commercial skippers visiting Cowes, SunSail etc & he stated they all should hold a Boatmans Licence & could also apply to the Master of the QE11 should he operate with 12 passengers.

This was drawn to my attention by another ribnet poster - Stuart of Lynx Sports, who has had similar problems with Cowes licencing.

I have an RYA Ocean (sail/power), RYA Advance Powerboat, both commercially endorsed, am a Boatmaster Grade 1, have operated in the Solent for longer than I want to admit, but will now be operating illegally if I take a vessel (charter or school) anywhere under his jurisdiction.

How can these rules allow vessels (coded by MCA) to be operated, but not the skippers (Commercially endorsed by MCA)?
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Old 10 August 2006, 09:15   #6
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I agree that any boat carrying paying passengers should be MCA coded and the skipper should have the right quals (cat4 rib Advanced Powerboat with Commercial Endors)

The but that seems odd is the sea school boats.
School boats do not have to be coded and then person using them does not have to be comm endo so why are they insisting school boats have this licence?

Regards
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Old 10 August 2006, 09:24   #7
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John, I think they are insisting on all boats on charter

However just spoken with Mark at the MCA (Ribnet member) and he has offered to investigate this, and hopefully come back to us with a positive answer.

Pete
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Old 10 August 2006, 10:52   #8
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Maybe I m misreading this but the Yachtmaster is issued by the RYA on behalf of the MCA and my Boatmaster Licence was issused by the MCA after an examination by an MCA examiner - therefore surely both are valid to meet their requirements?

Also the MCA wasnt around in 1904 so not sure how they can apply a law to that!

Still with all the Red Funnel Masters, etc I m sure there will be a big queue for their licence application desk!

Also would like to know what qualification their examiner holds...

SDG.
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Old 10 August 2006, 11:19   #9
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Have discussed this with Edmund Whelan, RYA Legal guru.
He stated that some other Local Authority tried something similar many years ago & got sunk.

IOW Gareth Davies was adamant, that there were no exemptions in regard to qualifications.

Haven't contacted Cowes Harbour Commissioners yet!
Wonder how they would react if every commercial boat stayed away?
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Old 10 August 2006, 11:27   #10
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Alan, wouldn't worry too much. Page 5 paragraph 4

http://www.nfdc.gov.uk/media/adobe/j/f/shmac_NFDC.pdf

the current list of licence holders isn't exactly extensive either, mainly Island folk.

http://www.iwight.com/licensing/publicregisterlist.aspx

Pete
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