Yacht vs Supertanker

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by SDGANDER

Seriously?!

No, Timw is our wind up merchant and he's not very good at it. Either ignore him or laugh at him is the usual policy.

[Poly]

Trial has begun:

BBC News - Cowes Week yacht crash skipper 'too close' to tanker

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by Poly

Trial has begun:

BBC News - Cowes Week yacht crash skipper 'too close' to tanker

what has to be a joke ;

'Mr Wilson denies three counts of contravening maritime regulations' :r ofl:

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by PeterM

what has to be a joke ;

'Mr Wilson denies three counts of contravening maritime regulations'

Wait till the defence team get into it, professional skipper and trained- and the big orange tanker altered course towards me so it put me too close !!!! Guess we must be careful as case running and it would be shame to see us cause a retrial

[paddlers]

Should've gone to specsavers, he may well be colourblind!! Bloody lucky that nobody lost their life in that one !!

[boristhebold]

The court should fine the naval chap loads of money for wasting tax payers money. Pleading not guilty is just a joke. What is he trying to prove.

[Wightdiver]

Two things that are a waste of time on a sailing boat, an umbrella and a Royal Naval Officer!!

[Poly]

Originally Posted by boristhebold

The court should fine the naval chap loads of money for wasting tax payers money. Pleading not guilty is just a joke. What is he trying to prove.

Well he either has a credible defence (who knows we've not heard it yet) or his legal team have advised him that the crown may not have a strong case (and it is entirely right that a defendant can put the crown to the test - it is not a 'waste of taxpayers money' that the Crown should have to prove their case, it is a founding principle of our judicial system) or he is just really hopeful/badly advised! It will be interesting to see the other side of the story!

However by choosing to go to trial IF FOUND GUILTY he will effectively pay 50% extra on his sentence AND as it is an English court he'll have to pay costs which for a multiday trial are going to be not insignificant.

[Barrowboy]

Good to see the Royal Navy weren't discouraged by the 'Cod War' back in the day and still have ramming on their syllabus for aspiring Admirals. They even paint the target bright orange and nearly a 1000' long, just to give the guy a sporting chance of achieving a hit....

[Anchorhandler]

I can imagine that, as he was registered/engaged in a well publicised and organised race that he may feel that normal navigational rules should not apply.
" you don't see formula 1 drivers having to give way to 18 wheeler road tankers as they speed around the circuit " type of defence and try to deflect blame on the Cowes week race organisers.
Was it specifically written on the race application form that the colregs should be followed at all times? Common sense to most of us but perhaps a clever layer might see it otherwise.

If it is feasible to use this a defence then it could have serious implications for the future of the event.

Simon

Sent from my iPhone using Rib.net

[ShinyShoe]

"denied failing to maintain a proper look out, impeding the passage of the UK-registered tanker, and crossing the channel used by the tanker." (Scottish Daily Express)

My defence would be...

• 'denied failing to maintain a proper look out' - I saw the tanker, so I was keeping a look out.
• 'impeding the passage of the UK-registered tanker' -I didn't the tanker just sailed over me so I didn't impede it...!
• 'crossing the channel used by the tanker.' - Tricky...not sure what my defence would be... ...but I might say the tanker moved its exclusion zone over me.

[Gilles]

same boat than 2 years ago

Yacht hit by tanker off Cowes, Isle of Wight - YouTube

[ShinyShoe]

Originally Posted by Anchorhandler

I can imagine that, as he was registered/engaged in a well publicised and organised race that he may feel that normal navigational rules should not apply.

Rule 2 of the Racing Rules is quite explicit:

PHP Code:

When a boat sailing under these rules meets a vessel that is not, 
she shall comply with the International Regulations for Preventing
Collisions at Sea (IRPCAS) or government right-of-way rules. If the
sailing instructions so state, the rules of Part 2 are replaced by the
right-of-way rules of the IRPCAS or by government right-of-way
rules. 


" you don't see formula 1 drivers having to give way to 18 wheeler road tankers as they speed around the circuit " type of defence and try to deflect blame on the Cowes week race organisers.

Would make F1 more interesting . Seem to think some rally driving does use open public highways and they are required to comply with normal road traffic laws?

Was it specifically written on the race application form that the colregs should be followed at all times? Common sense to most of us but perhaps a clever layer might see it otherwise.

The race entry will have required that they comply with the SIs and the RRS. Rule 2 of the RRS is explicitly clear. I'm not sure the Rib.net jury will have access to the 2011 SIs but from what I've seen of 2012 & 13 SIs at Cowes Week they were explicit and referred to the moving exclusion zones, so I expect they were in the 2011's as well.

Interestingly the 2013-16 RRS were ammended to specifically state that boats shall comply with TSSs to avoid that being required by the SIs. My understanding that ammendment followed a previous Court Case where a yacht failed to comply with the TSS in the English Channel and was fined but possibly couldn't be penalised by the race officials because there was no clear breach of a rule.

Based on that court case Racing didn't exempt the sailor from complying with the law. It was just that the Race Organisers had to accept that they couldnt DSQ the racer (As I recall he didn't cause an incident but sailed down a TSS in the wrong direction), and had to leave it to the courts to apply a fine to punish him.

[Anchorhandler]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

Rule 2 of the Racing Rules is quite explicit:
When a boat sailing under these rules meets a vessel that is not,
she shall comply with the International Regulations for Preventing
Collisions at Sea (IRPCAS) or government right-of-way rules. If the
sailing instructions so state, the rules of Part 2 are replaced by the
right-of-way rules of the IRPCAS or by government right-of-way
rules.Would make F1 more interesting . Seem to think some rally driving does use open public highways and they are required to comply with normal road traffic laws?
The race entry will have required that they comply with the SIs and the RRS. Rule 2 of the RRS is explicitly clear. I'm not sure the Rib.net jury will have access to the 2011 SIs but from what I've seen of 2012 & 13 SIs at Cowes Week they were explicit and referred to the moving exclusion zones, so I expect they were in the 2011's as well.

Interestingly the 2013-16 RRS were ammended to specifically state that boats shall comply with TSSs to avoid that being required by the SIs. My understanding that ammendment followed a previous Court Case where a yacht failed to comply with the TSS in the English Channel and was fined but possibly couldn't be penalised by the race officials because there was no clear breach of a rule.

Based on that court case Racing didn't exempt the sailor from complying with the law. It was just that the Race Organisers had to accept that they couldnt DSQ the racer (As I recall he didn't cause an incident but sailed down a TSS in the wrong direction), and had to leave it to the courts to apply a fine to punish him.

Wow, thanks Shiny your knowledge of rag and stuck racing is suspiciously comprehensive ( for a forum dedicated to rigid inflatables)... Are you sure there's nothing you want to tell us? :-)

In all seriousness though, its good to hear that the old "but i was racing m'lord, its their fault for not explaining to me that i should give way" excuse wouldn't stand up in court.....

Failing this then i'm struggling to see how he can defend himself?

Simon

Sent from my iPhone using Rib.net

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Anchorhandler

Wow, thanks Shiny your knowledge of rag and stuck racing is suspiciously comprehensive ( for a forum dedicated to rigid inflatables)... Are you sure there's nothing you want to tell us? :-)

In all seriousness though, its good to hear that the old "but i was racing m'lord, its their fault for not explaining to me that i should give way" excuse wouldn't stand up in court.....

Failing this then i'm struggling to see how he can defend himself?

Simon

Sent from my iPhone using Rib.net

You might get some insight into where the defence are going from these "live" reports from the court.

DAY 1 http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/1072...t_into_tanker/

The case was due to resume today at 10am - but none of the press seem to have covered it, so either it was incredibly dull, it got ajourned or the local guy didn't write anything for everyone else to syndicate!

[Poly]

Well it seems the case did call again last friday and has been covered in PBO. Its going to drag on a bit with it not calling again until 22nd and then potentially running the rest of that week.

Trial of Cowes Week yachtsman Roland Wilson | Pbo

The defence case is starting to become a bit clearer - the tanker was possibly speeding; the tanker signalled a turn to starboard which it either slowed, or aborted. And a hint that perhaps the MPZ wasn't properly managed with only one escort in such a busy time (I'm surprised we haven't seen any question on whether it was prudent for the tanker to proceed in the middle of a race, or even if the HM should have permitted the race in the middle of a live shipping lane).

[PeterM]

ahhh. so ( and im not going to 'PC') - sailing nobber - who should have known better - may get off on a technicality ...

A lot of us southerners screech about that area with no issue - and manage not to hit the various bloody great big ( really hugely big tankers etc ) boats that pass that way each day ( no matter if they are turning, stopping , dancing a jig or whatever ).

If he gets off as 'it could have been speeding' it'll serve a huge blow to the freedom of navigation we all enjoy in the UK.....

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by Poly

Well it seems the case did call again last friday and has been covered in PBO. Its going to drag on a bit with it not calling again until 22nd and then potentially running the rest of that week.

Trial of Cowes Week yachtsman Roland Wilson | Pbo

The defence case is starting to become a bit clearer - the tanker was possibly speeding; the tanker signalled a turn to starboard which it either slowed, or aborted. And a hint that perhaps the MPZ wasn't properly managed with only one escort in such a busy time (I'm surprised we haven't seen any question on whether it was prudent for the tanker to proceed in the middle of a race, or even if the HM should have permitted the race in the middle of a live shipping lane).

The race committee at Cowes give out and are also on line the rules of the road covering sailing in the restricted zone. It shows a shaded area as well for extra care. Yes he may be using this defense but no way can Harbour authorities be blamed, this is a working port and they do a great job securing safe passage for all. I accept thay have added some additional resources now - A double crewed RIB runs around trying to intercept the fools that choose to sail in the way of a large ship. No speed restrictions I am aware of in this area except when fireworks night and they send out a mariners notice.
The signal to turn to starboard he heard we believe is one horn of FIVE!!

For those who dont use this area of water, there is a commercial route due to shallows called Bramble Bank so all ships follow the main designated route. For a sailor from IOW and with naval training I cannot believe his actions but will let the court decide guilt

Just found 2011 mariners notice issued for Cowes Week
Moving Prohibited Zone (MPZ)

The Southampton Harbour Byelaws enforces the requirement that all vessels over 150 metres in length when navigating in the Precautionary Area referred to in this notice are automatically allocated a Moving Prohibited Zone (MPZ). The MPZ is an area extending 1000 metres ahead and 100 metres either side of any vessel greater than 150 metres within the Precautionary Area.

The Master of a small vessel (less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel) shall ensure that his vessel does not enter a Moving Prohibited Zone.

For the purpose of indicating the presence of the Moving Prohibited Zone the Master of any vessel of over 150 metres length shall display on the vessel where it can be best seen, by day: a black cylinder, and by night: 3 all round red lights in a vertical line.

When operationally possible the Southampton Harbour patrol launch (VHF Call Sign ‘SP’ Channel 12) will precede these vessels within the ‘Precautionary Area’ showing, in addition to the normal steaming lights a blue fixed light. The absence of the patrol launch will not invalidate the implementation of the moving prohibited zone.

[C2 RIBS]

This one is what is shown for all sailors showing MRZ (movement restricted zone)
Scroll down to see chart http://www.southamptonvts.co.uk/admi...%20No%2023.pdf

[whisper]

How much is this case costing us?