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Old 13 April 2005, 08:31   #31
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Originally Posted by Jimbob
Bottom line in the future - we have no choice

We must find methods of generating energy that protects our plant.

I donagree they dont look very nice, however neither will factory 5000 suncream, if we dont change

When will people realise - ot is NOT the way windfarms LOOK that is the main problem - it is the fact that they just aren't viable. Generating electricity at NORMAL prices they can't even break even!!!

The ONLY reason Blair is pushing them is because he rashly signed up to the Kyoto accord - promising to slash Britain's CO2 output. The USA refused to sign - China and Russia don't give a toss - the rest of the world trying to comply just doesn't make much of a difference.

Nuclear power is the ONLY thing that can produce enough energy without increasing our CO2 and causing global warming.
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Old 13 April 2005, 09:02   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
When will people realise - ot is NOT the way windfarms LOOK that is the main problem - it is the fact that they just aren't viable. Generating electricity at NORMAL prices they can't even break even!!!

The ONLY reason Blair is pushing them is because he rashly signed up to the Kyoto accord - promising to slash Britain's CO2 output. The USA refused to sign - China and Russia don't give a toss - the rest of the world trying to comply just doesn't make much of a difference.

Nuclear power is the ONLY thing that can produce enough energy without increasing our CO2 and causing global warming.
Codders, calm down dear, this is only a forum
I agree and disagree nuclear is great but would you trust some countries to use it One thing the west can really do is stop the developing world going through the same learning curve that we have gone through. Wind power and low voltage technology might be the answer and the only way we will find out is by encouraging this type of technology Des
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Old 13 April 2005, 09:16   #33
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I tell you what, if my crazy house mate didn't stop leaving the lights on during the day, we wouldn't need wind farms
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Old 13 April 2005, 10:04   #34
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Originally Posted by MadMat
Bum licker!
nah! you must be confusing me with some other sycophant! mebbe one of your mates.

for someone (me) who is genuinely impressed with the craftsmanship that went into FGT's lifting eyesthen being lucky enough to be part of the design and construction of a refinery or pharma plant is truly fascinating!
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Old 13 April 2005, 10:08   #35
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Let's be clear. There are 2 types of 'Nuclear', fission & fusion. Fission is the old fashioned way, creates highly dangerous byproducts with a long half life, and the fuel for it 'can', if further refined in the right way be used to make bombs (gArf take note). All in all, not a good thing.

Fusion uses hydrogen (oh, ok, deuterium & tritium) from water and lithium for fuel to replicate the process by which the sun creates energy. Both the fuels in isolation are very safe, and useless to a terrorist, and the byproducts of fusion have a reasonably short half life, so they won't still be dangerious in 10000 years! Plus the amount of energy expended by fusion is HUGE.

It is very important to differentiate between the 2 if you're going to discuss 'nuclear' as being the future, pretty much everyone is in agreement that nuclear fission power stations don't have a future.
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Old 13 April 2005, 10:11   #36
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This has to be the way to go


Wave power
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Old 13 April 2005, 10:18   #37
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Except ships run into offshore wave farms, so then you start having to have them subsea, which increases the development and maintenance costs massively. I reckon offshore wind farms are OK, at least they are visible, and the ongoing maintenance costs are reasonable since you don't need a submarine to maintain them.

I don't understand people who are so against wind farms, but I guess they're the same kind of people who wanted to put a speed limit on windermere, another decision which I can't understand.
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Old 13 April 2005, 10:26   #38
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Codpawn, do you care about CO2 and global warming? If not, then do you care about having enough power when we run out of gas and oil for conventional power stations? Or are you happy with the 20,000+ half life for some of the fuels&byproducts of fission that if 'release' will not only pollute for your kids lifespans, but for pretty much the rest of history?
OK, so fission is bad, gas and oil are finite. Fusion won't be on line for at least another 20 years, quite probably more before it becomes viable to take over as a primary power source.

So what do you propose in the meantime? We go back to living in caves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
When will people realise - ot is NOT the way windfarms LOOK that is the main problem - it is the fact that they just aren't viable. Generating electricity at NORMAL prices they can't even break even!!!

The ONLY reason Blair is pushing them is because he rashly signed up to the Kyoto accord - promising to slash Britain's CO2 output. The USA refused to sign - China and Russia don't give a toss - the rest of the world trying to comply just doesn't make much of a difference.

Nuclear power is the ONLY thing that can produce enough energy without increasing our CO2 and causing global warming.
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Old 13 April 2005, 16:32   #39
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Originally Posted by MadMat
Codpawn, do you care about CO2 and global warming? If not, then do you care about having enough power when we run out of gas and oil for conventional power stations? Or are you happy with the 20,000+ half life for some of the fuels&byproducts of fission that if 'release' will not only pollute for your kids lifespans, but for pretty much the rest of history?
OK, so fission is bad, gas and oil are finite. Fusion won't be on line for at least another 20 years, quite probably more before it becomes viable to take over as a primary power source.

So what do you propose in the meantime? We go back to living in caves?
I thought it was pretty obvious I care a hell of a lot about CO2 output as I have been harping on about it!!! I also happen to care a great deal about the environment which is why I hate seeing the amount of CO2 we chuck as as people are so scared of the N word.

Who says fission is bad??? PROPERLY controlled it is NOT so bad. Take a trip to trawsfynydd some time - you will find it pretty hard to believe there was ever a powerstation there.

The greens are stopping DECENT countries from having nuclear power whilst countries like China and Russia arte reaping the benefits of cheap power.

Gas and oil are NOT repeat NOT finite - there are more oil reserves now than there were in the 70s - the more the cost increases the more viable other oil sources become. BUT having said that buring oil and gas for power generation causes vast quantities of CO2 to be released.

It is about time the greens of this world stop attacking their OWN countries and start targetting the REAL polluters. China for example is like Britain was at the start of the industrial revolution - only a hell of a lot bigger.
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Old 13 April 2005, 16:50   #40
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Originally Posted by Scary Des
Codders, calm down dear, this is only a forum
I agree and disagree nuclear is great but would you trust some countries to use it One thing the west can really do is stop the developing world going through the same learning curve that we have gone through. Wind power and low voltage technology might be the answer and the only way we will find out is by encouraging this type of technology Des
True I need to take a chill pill but it is so annoying that the greens stop countries like Britain - Germany - Sweden etc from using nuclear power whilst places like China are building 40 new power stations!!!

Wind power is SO inefficient it is a joke and solar power is even worse.

The ONE thing I do agree with is tidal power - why oh why didn't they take advantage when the second Severn crossing was built and build a tidal barrage into it? Believe it or not that would generate about 25% of the whole countries power needs!!!

Another thing that WOULD help is getting householders to cut their energy usage - low wattage bulbs etc can help but an even bigger saving would be if people turned their heating down a touch - normal room temp should be 20C and yet I will bet most people's missus have the heating whacked up to about 25C - wear a jumper and save the world!!!

Also worth a mention is the massive increase in streetlighting - including on motorways in the middle of nowhere.
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