VAT on imported rib ?

Skinnyrib · 16 July 2022, 15:53

Hi all - I have agreed to buy a used rib from a French broker and am arranging to transport. The broker will put the trailered rib onto the ferry as wheeled freight and I will collect from Portsmouth. Should I prepare to pay VAT ? I can’t find a definitive answer. Will the situation be different if I actually go over to France and collect myself as it would not be freight then ? Confused. Grateful for any advice. Thanks.

Pikey Dave · 16 July 2022, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinnyrib

Hi all - I have agreed to buy a used rib from a French broker and am arranging to transport. The broker will put the trailered rib onto the ferry as wheeled freight and I will collect from Portsmouth. Should I prepare to pay VAT ? I can’t find a definitive answer. Will the situation be different if I actually go over to France and collect myself as it would not be freight then ? Confused. Grateful for any advice. Thanks.

Go to France, hitch it on & bring it home🤷*♂️

goearth · 17 July 2022, 03:56

Our understanding is that one of the crazy aspects of the post-Brexit situation is that you DO have to pay UK VAT on imported boats - even if EU VAT has been paid.

The means that VAT has effectively to be paid twice if a boat with EU VAT already paid is then imported into the UK.

The only exception - which applies only rarely - is that if UK VAT was paid in the last few years; the boat was taken to the EU; and is now being brought back; then under the RGR (Returned Goods Regulations) you (probably) won't have to pay VAT.

Note that the penalties for VAT fraud are severe.

LEGAL CAVEAT: The above is not legal or financial advice; as we are not solicitors or accountants.

69cmw · 17 July 2022, 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Go to France, hitch it on & bring it home🤷*♂️

Simple solution [emoji41]

Dry Run · 17 July 2022, 06:57

My understanding - having imported boats from abroad.

If the boat was built pre Brexit and vat was paid at that time, you are not liable for vat in the UK. If it was built after brexit or if no proof of vat paid is available, you will have to pay vat in the UK.

Going down the "evasion" route could cause you problems - especially when you come to sell it.

jakew009 · 17 July 2022, 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dry Run

My understanding - having imported boats from abroad.

If the boat was built pre Brexit and vat was paid at that time, you are not liable for vat in the UK. If it was built after brexit or if no proof of vat paid is available, you will have to pay vat in the UK.

Going down the "evasion" route could cause you problems - especially when you come to sell it.

Sorry but this is bad advice.

The VAT is due when you bring it back to the UK unless you were the person who originally took it out of the UK and you qualify for RGR.

Otherwise if you want to be legal, you bring it back to UK and contact HMRC small craft team who sort it all out.

goearth has it about right.

Brexit, ain’t it wonderful.

Dry Run · 18 July 2022, 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakew009

Sorry but this is bad advice.

The VAT is due when you bring it back to the UK unless you were the person who originally took it out of the UK and you qualify for RGR.

Otherwise if you want to be legal, you bring it back to UK and contact HMRC small craft team who sort it all out.

goearth has it about right.

Brexit, ain’t it wonderful.

Is this boat being brought back to the UK having been exported from the UK??, That wasn't my understanding of the situation.

Skinnyrib · 18 July 2022, 07:05

Thanks all for your input so far.

The rib has never been to UK.

A minefield !

Poly · 18 July 2022, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dry Run

My understanding - having imported boats from abroad.

If the boat was built pre Brexit and vat was paid at that time, you are not liable for vat in the UK. If it was built after brexit or if no proof of vat paid is available, you will have to pay vat in the UK.

I'm pretty sure that is wrong

Quote:

Going down the "evasion" route could cause you problems - especially when you come to sell it.

that is a point worth being aware of, even if you think you can get away with it now, some buyers will be switched on to the paperwork it should have.

jakew009 · 18 July 2022, 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dry Run

Is this boat being brought back to the UK having been exported from the UK??, That wasn't my understanding of the situation.

No, but you confused all sorts of issues about whether it’s build date was before or after Brexit and whether proof of vat paid was available, none of which is even remotely relevant.

The only thing that’s important is a) who exported it from the UK and b) who’s bringing it back.

If a) & b) are the same, you can get RGR. Otherwise, you pay VAT

jakew009 · 18 July 2022, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinnyrib

Thanks all for your input so far.

The rib has never been to UK.

A minefield !

It’s not really a minefield… the VAT is due and hmrc small craft team will sort it all out very efficiently for you.

Dry Run · 19 July 2022, 07:10

The only thing that’s important is a) who exported it from the UK and b) who’s bringing it back.

But the OP says it has never been exported from the UK

Poly · 19 July 2022, 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dry Run

The only thing that’s important is a) who exported it from the UK and b) who’s bringing it back.

But the OP says it has never been exported from the UK

Exactly so its a straightforward import so VAT is due on it.

Tim M · 19 July 2022, 18:11

I've been involved in several imports (and indeed exports) of larger pleasure vessels (23m+) over the last couple of years. Brexit has certainly made things a lot more complicated.

It does sound like VAT would be payable. You could try your luck bringing it back yourself (which could raise some interesting questions if you get stopped at the border).

Alternatively bring it into the UK on a temporary admission basis (Google will reveal more info on this) which would effectively give you 18 months VAT free time in the UK, after which the boat would either need to leave or the VAT be paid, but that would certainly give you some more time to consider your options and help to defer the initial "hit" of paying the VAT. (Edit: considering that further, that might not be possible on the basis you are presumably a tax resident in the UK which differs from the examples I've been involved with in the past).

I can highly recommend these guys for offering an expert opinion on these sorts of matters - based in Monaco but English speaking. They previously advised me and my employer on a vessel we brought from the UK to Europe, and a UK (EU VAT not paid) vessel that we had in the EU but didn't want to pay the VAT on.

https://www.hv-yachting.com/

jakew009 · 19 July 2022, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim M

I've been involved in several imports (and indeed exports) of larger pleasure vessels (23m+) over the last couple of years. Brexit has certainly made things a lot more complicated.

It does sound like VAT would be payable. You could try your luck bringing it back yourself (which could raise some interesting questions if you get stopped at the border).

You’re not going to get stopped at the border. They aren’t going to give a toss. How many people do you think go across each day towing all sorts of stuff on holiday? Do you think they stop every caravan and check you haven’t just bought it?

However, if you didn’t declare the boat once you are back to the HMRC small craft team you would effectively be guilty of smuggling goods into the UK.

Quote:

Alternatively bring it into the UK on a temporary admission basis (Google will reveal more info on this) which would effectively give you 18 months VAT free time in the UK, after which the boat would either need to leave or the VAT be paid, but that would certainly give you some more time to consider your options and help to defer the initial "hit" of paying the VAT. (Edit: considering that further, that might not be possible on the basis you are presumably a tax resident in the UK which differs from the examples I've been involved with in the past).

As you say, completely irrelevant for a UK resident. This only works if you are a UK resident considering keeping a boat in the EU.

Tim M · 19 July 2022, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakew009

As you say, completely irrelevant for a UK resident. This only works if you are a UK resident considering keeping a boat in the EU.

Or vice versa....

willk · 19 July 2022, 19:20

It's a real bonus ball - having a member who is so well versed in the Mysteries of the UK Taxation system...

https://www.rib.net/forum/f8/buying-...tml#post828475

"keep cavey"

jakew009 · 20 July 2022, 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

It's a real bonus ball - having a member who is so well versed in the Mysteries of the UK Taxation system...

https://www.rib.net/forum/f8/buying-...tml#post828475

"keep cavey"

I couldn’t care less if someone pays the VAT or not.

I even pointed out above how easy it would be to tow the boat home, put it on the SSR with a new name and hand write a dodgy invoice.

But if you want to do it legally, the answer is pretty clear. Despite how many ideas people may come up with to justify their smuggling endeavours 😊

What I would point out, is if you intend to smuggle it into the UK, writing about your intentions on an Internet forum that can easily be linked back to you probably isn’t the smartest of moves to start your new career…

Pikey Dave · 20 July 2022, 08:35

I’m assuming the RIB in question must be something special, to warrant the OP considering the deal in the first place. It’s either cheap, in which case it must be so cheap that any potential VAT payment is in-consequential, or it’s a particularly rare or desirable craft, in which case the VAT element is err umm in-consequential! If the OP wants to avoid paying VAT on VAT, he could buy a boat from a UK supplier[emoji848]

Poly · 20 July 2022, 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakew009

You’re not going to get stopped at the border. They aren’t going to give a toss. How many people do you think go across each day towing all sorts of stuff on holiday? Do you think they stop every caravan and check you haven’t just bought it?

I've never driven on cross-channel ferries. How does it work? Is there a red and green channel to drive through like at the airport? Or are you just supposed to go home and remember to declare it? Presumably some portion of people going through the green channel are 'randomly' stopped to check for illegal goods? Is any part of the system smart enough to know that you went outbound with just a car but returned with a trailer? [presumably if you were stopped this sort of thing might be noticeable to a customs official who is alert enough; or at least the "see we towed it out and brought it back" be part of the clarification for the legitimate holiday maker.]. Are there things that might stand out on a French boat or French trailer to spark the attention of a vigilant customs official like a right-hand door on a Caravan might just attract a second look?