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Old 11 October 2012, 05:42   #1
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Towing without Brakes ?

Hi all,

I need to drag back my Osprey from Anglesey to Preston for some tube work in a few weeks, but the brakes on the trailer are scrap. I could look at replacing the brake system. Alternatively, without sounding wreckless, I was thinking of towing it back without brakes.

It's 7.8m with a 250hp and it will be behind a range rover. I've towed it to a local dealers a few times and it didn't give me any problems.

Do you think it would be mad to risk it ?
Would it invalidate any insurance claim should I crash or be crashed into ?
Do you know the penalty involved if you get stopped by the feds or VOSA ?

Thanks in advance !
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Old 11 October 2012, 05:52   #2
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Yes
Yes
Is that before or after an accident?

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Old 11 October 2012, 05:53   #3
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I think with your rig you would be well over 750kgs. So you are leaving yourself wide open!

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Old 11 October 2012, 05:54   #4
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Or, does anyone know of a company that would rent a suitable trailer ?
Cheers
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Old 11 October 2012, 05:54   #5
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Quote:
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Yes
Yes
Is that before or after an accident?

Fair one !! No it is then.
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Old 11 October 2012, 06:01   #6
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Yes
Yes
Is that before or after an accident?

Definitely + 1 for that
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Old 11 October 2012, 06:24   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1978SeaRider
Hi all,

I need to drag back my Osprey from Anglesey to Preston for some tube work in a few weeks, but the brakes on the trailer are scrap. I could look at replacing the brake system. Alternatively, without sounding wreckless, I was thinking of towing it back without brakes.

It's 7.8m with a 250hp and it will be behind a range rover. I've towed it to a local dealers a few times and it didn't give me any problems.

Do you think it would be mad to risk it ?
Would it invalidate any insurance claim should I crash or be crashed into ?
Do you know the penalty involved if you get stopped by the feds or VOSA ?

Thanks in advance !
It would be a bit daft but on the other hand I brought my Redbay back from Redbay HQ via Loch Lomond with no brakes no damper and no hand brake but the D4 never noticed
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Old 11 October 2012, 06:47   #8
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the D4 never noticed
I think you're missing the point
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Old 11 October 2012, 07:05   #9
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Not worth the risk, think of what is the worse thing that could happen and then consider your liabilities if that happens.

If you cant think of the worst thing then consider if you had a major accident and someone got killed or seriously maimed, would your insurance pay out, would there be legal issues to address, seeing as you have allready posted on here that your thinking about risking it and something happens you would be in big doo doo mess and probably potentially paying out large sums of money for the rest of your life.

Maybe check with your insurance company but I wouldn't advise that as they may put a little note on your details on their database.

Check whether it is legal to tow with an unbraked trailer, I doubt it considering the size and weight. I have a 7.5M cobra with a 200HP on back and I have to use a braked trailer.

On a side note if I were you I would try and get your post taken off as youve allready admitted potentially breaking the law and breaking your insurance conditions most likely . 8-)

hope this helps, cost of sorting out the brakes is minimal compare to the risks.
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Old 11 October 2012, 07:11   #10
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Agree with the rest. Not going to do the whole 'holier-than-thou', 'it could be my daughter behind you when you crash' stuff, as we've doubtless all done silly stuff, but I'm sure you appreciate the laws are enforced for everyone's protection.

So, to your questions:
  • Yes, it would invalidate any claim if you were illegally towing (albeit aware or not), I'm sure you know insurance companies like to wriggle out of any payouts, whenever they can.
  • The graduated fixed penalty, deposits and immobilisation scheme (GFP/DS) was launched in 2009. Along with the Road Safety Act 2006, it gave VOSA and police powers to stop you, issue fixed penalties, issue on-the-spot fines, impound and/or immobilise vehicles to prevent any onward journey etc etc. There's lots of offences covered and all are driver related. If you did get pulled it'd likely be covered by the Construction and Use regulations. If they chose to prosecute you (highly unlikely) I think the max penalty is £5000 fine and/or 2 years in prison.
Not worth the risk IMO. Either get the brakes sorted (plenty of people on here that can advise if you chose to do it yourself), or as you say, hire a trailer. There's a few companies that hire boat trailers, down this way, but I'm not sure about Anglesey way. Google's probably your friend at this point.

Work out the costings too - if you can get the job done in a day, then maybe hiring's the way to go. If you have to hire the trailer once to get it down there and then again to pick it back up, then it may be more economically viable to fix the brakes. And, of course, when the brakes are fixed, yo can tow it around as much as you like
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Old 11 October 2012, 07:12   #11
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If you have an accident you won't be insured and as such, even if it's not your fault it will be deemed to be as you will have had no right to be on the road.

I believe that if you're stopped it's a minimum of 3 points on your licence, a fine and you'll probably have to make arrangements for it's onward travel.

Do you really want to take the risk ?
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Old 11 October 2012, 07:21   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leapy

I think you're missing the point
Don't think so a guy I new got killed when a boat he was towing jackknifed so I am the last one to take chances
But my trailer is another story it was supposed to be road worthy when I picked it up
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Old 11 October 2012, 07:38   #13
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I think you're missing the point

Quote:
Originally Posted by mick View Post
Don't think so
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick View Post
I am the last one to take chances
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick View Post
I brought my Redbay back from Redbay HQ via Loch Lomond with no brakes no damper and no hand brake

Er ...
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Old 11 October 2012, 07:52   #14
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As Iíve mentioned on here before Iím in the market for a new boat,
But one of the biggest stumbling blocks I seem to keep coming across is what seller considers being a road worthy trailer! Donít get me wrong here Iíve sold stuff myself with trailers that would require attention, (what I would consider purely a launching trailer)
But always informed the buyer of such. And in nearly all cases the buyer has been happy to take the boat away as is without making other arrangements. In a recent case the buyer was even a copper!
Times and the laws (or there enforcement of) are changing fast and I have in recent times turned my attentions away from a boat purely on the trailer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1978SeaRider View Post
Hi all,

I need to drag back my Osprey from Anglesey to Preston for some tube work in a few weeks, but the brakes on the trailer are scrap.
Do you think it would be mad to risk it ?

It may on reflection be a silly question, but ask yourself have I done it myself?
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Old 11 October 2012, 08:14   #15
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It would be a bit daft but on the other hand I brought my Redbay back from Redbay HQ via Loch Lomond with no brakes no damper and no hand brake but the D4 never noticed
Probably just as well the Police / VOSA etc didn't notice either...

D4 in "normal" driving is one thing. When some tw@t pulls out in front of you "coz you obviously won't be going fast - you've got a trailer" and your ABS kicks in both you, the D4 and the subsequent insurance claim WILL notice!



Put this in perspcective - I could (just) tow my rib with my current car. I went for a braked trailer for 2 reasons - my next car may not weigh as much, and also I wanted as much stopping power as possible. Car clocks in at 1.6Tonnes, so it's a full 750Kg unbraked. I have only once ever towed an unbraked trailer that I reckoned was around the 700Kg mark (box trailer with 20 x 25Kg bags of type 1 + a couple of hundred KG for the trailer itself) Someone pulled out in front of me, I was doing about 55. The ABS might as well have not been switched on.
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Old 11 October 2012, 08:16   #16
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But always informed the buyer of such
Supplying an unroadworthy vehicle for use on the road is an offence. A boat trailer is a vehicle for this purpose.Telling the buyer does not mitigate the offence rather compounds it as it proves that you knew it was unroadworthy. Allow him to hitch it onto a car and tow it off and you are most definitely up the creek without a paddle. The offence does not require the seller to be in a trade or business, a private individual can be, and have been, prosecuted. Something to think of when selling on. Writing a disclaimer on the receipt does not help either. If its unroadworthy the buyer would have to collect on a vehicle that could carry, not tow it.
As far as using this one obviously the rig is not legal without brakes but I would hazard a guess that a big proportion of boat trailers on the road and used in saltwater have inoperative/ineffective brakes. Mild steel and seawater are poor companions. A big towing vehicle helps but its still illegal if you get caught by someone who knows anything about trailer law.
Worst case scenario is involved in an accident in which people are hurt. Your risks your decision.
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Old 11 October 2012, 08:38   #17
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Supplying an unroadworthy vehicle for use on the road is an offence. A boat trailer is a vehicle for this purpose.Telling the buyer does not mitigate the offence rather compounds it as it proves that you knew it was unroadworthy.
Quote:
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Iíve sold stuff myself with trailers that would require attention, (what I would consider purely a launching trailer)
But always informed the buyer of such.
Quote me in context please,

Never said roadworthy, just made the point that people are prepared to use unroadworthy trailers!
And how difficult it is to buy a boat with a good roadworthy trailer under it, as uninformed people have a very different idea on what roadworthy actually is.

heres a case in point
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sea-Ray-200-OV-/190726490265?pt=UK_Power_Boats&hash=item2c682f4899
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Old 11 October 2012, 08:43   #18
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Quote:
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I think you're missing the point

Er ...
Whoops wrong car I used the Defender and there was no harm done and its all sorted now
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Old 11 October 2012, 08:48   #19
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to supply that trailer n boat ( in the advert quoted)and allow it to be towed away would on the face of it be an offence.
Quote:
Never said roadworthy
eh ? do ya mean you never said unroadworthy?
The point is still there quote or no quote. Someone supplies an unroadworthy trailer, and no working brakes on a braked trailer would qualify as unroadworthy, and the buyer has an accident followed by an investigation as to where it came from there is liability there for the seller.
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Old 11 October 2012, 08:53   #20
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eh ? do ya mean you never said unroadworthy?
I never said it could fly either!
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