Total failure retubing the Liveboat "Seeker"

[prairie tuber]

Very interesting ( ) thread. Are there no established construction & material standards for various types of lifeboats which must be met for them to operate within the Netherlands? Do lifeboats operating within the Netherlands have to undergo any kind of a mandatory inspection schedule?

Was Gemini Industries able to provide you a referral list of other clients who operate commercial/professional lifeboats that use their PVC tubes? If they are going around telling people that PVC is a superior tubing material for commercial RIBs, that is just bizarre. Had those tubes cracked or separated from the hull during an offshore rough water rescue, it would be have been catastrophic!

Nos4r2 is correct that the UK based Gemini Industries is a completely different outfit from the South African based Gemini Inflatables.

[Mennojsh]

Hi gemini was telling the material was polyeurethane from the dunlop factory
and very wear resistant

absolute bad quality very thin and expandable i think they use this normally for life rafts this is not good too use for a RIB


I have seen the new hypalon tubes At Hibs Amsterdam
the new tubes are from the finest quality
perfectly built in england
You can see they built them with love and they think of every detail

paul you must recognize them as hypalon

Greetings Menno.Ledel

[paul tilley]

Hi Menno thanks for the compliments on the tubes hopefully teaming up with Andrew by supplying tubes for him to fit in holland will ensure that dutch customers get a quality made and fitted tube for years to come .

[John Kennett]

Jack Bowran at Gemini Industries has emailed me their side of the story, which I have agreed to post on his behalf.

"Attached is a pic of the boat, showing the tube my son fitted, at a very low cost, because I understood a man wanted to be a fitting agent in Holland. We operated from Belgium for 18 years, and sold in that time over 300 boats and over 200 liferafts.

The owner of the boat was delighted with the job.

However, it had a job of work to do, so against my instructions, he put the boat in the water the following day, and for a demo to photographers, drove it up onto a pebble beach at high speed, damaging the tube at the cone end.

It got worse, because the glue had not fully cured. It is a 3 day job to fit a tube due to waiting time for the glue to cure fully.

The idea was for my Son to fit the tube onto the hull, and show Menno how to put the sealing strips on a couple of days later, but the owner insisted he completed the job that day, so Rick worked into the late evening, and told the owner it was on his head, if he did not wait, before putting the boat in the water.

Rick speaks fluent Dutch, so there was no misunderstanding.

The boat got damaged, and glue started to separate. The owner then demanded Rick to go back to Amsterdam from Belgium, where he lives, to repair the boat at our cost. I told the owner we would repair it at cost, but he had to take it to Belgium. Because it would be a 3 day job to fix it. But Menno could have done it, because Rick had told him and shown him how to glue."

Readers will need to make make their own considered judgement. Gemini Industries can be contacted via their web site www.geminiindustries.co.uk

John

[Mennojsh]

I was there when his son was glueing the tubes on the hull
here

also the photographer from the newspaper was there with Henk

from the beginning i told him i did not want too doo anything with this
sort of tubes

then his son did not take enough glue with him and Henk Wijga from Hoge had too send somebody too the other end of the netherlands too pick up some glue for him



His son asked me too fix the job a day later

i refuse that because i did not get paid for it
and i did not like the tubes material and technic
i am glad i did not do anything on this tube because if i did
he would point his fingers too me too say i did the damage on the tube

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Jack Bowran at Gemini Industries has emailed me their side of the story, which I have agreed to post on his behalf.

"Attached is a pic of the boat, showing the tube my son fitted, at a very low cost, because I understood a man wanted to be a fitting agent in Holland. We operated from Belgium for 18 years, and sold in that time over 300 boats and over 200 liferafts.

The owner of the boat was delighted with the job.

However, it had a job of work to do, so against my instructions, he put the boat in the water the following day, and for a demo to photographers, drove it up onto a pebble beach at high speed, damaging the tube at the cone end.

It got worse, because the glue had not fully cured. It is a 3 day job to fit a tube due to waiting time for the glue to cure fully.

The idea was for my Son to fit the tube onto the hull, and show Menno how to put the sealing strips on a couple of days later, but the owner insisted he completed the job that day, so Rick worked into the late evening, and told the owner it was on his head, if he did not wait, before putting the boat in the water.

Rick speaks fluent Dutch, so there was no misunderstanding.

The boat got damaged, and glue started to separate. The owner then demanded Rick to go back to Amsterdam from Belgium, where he lives, to repair the boat at our cost. I told the owner we would repair it at cost, but he had to take it to Belgium. Because it would be a 3 day job to fix it. But Menno could have done it, because Rick had told him and shown him how to glue."

Readers will need to make make their own considered judgement. Gemini Industries can be contacted via their web site www.geminiindustries.co.uk

John

[HOGE]

Originally Posted by HOGE

we are talking about gemini MARINE industries ltd, the owner is Jack Bowran.

His sun living in Belgium did the gluing: Rick Bowran.

At thursday the tubes were glued and we waited till saterdayevening to sail. Sunday the first tube got leak out of nowere. There arrives the liveboat: field with water and withe empty tubes: were gonna save you! Yeah, wright!

We have to do it all by ourselfs, they won't come for repears. Rick is a truckdriver, to buisy, no time.
An understatemend: it was not a succes.

Henk

So he told his father he has worked late! Well, he has to return to Belgium to be there at 21.00 hour so he left at 19.00! Wat's late.

He never suggested to repair, didn'd answer my mails at all.

Why should I replaice perfekt quality RIBtubes with new ones if there was an other solution? I paying 5500 euro's ex VAT for new tubes a few month later, should I do that if it was not absolutely inavoidable? I, and the journalist Evert Bruinekool from "Mijn Boot" (My Boat, a magazine) who is an witness of all have tried everything to com to an solution, but nothing worked out.

And to let me pay you for the gluing and let menno do all the work that a good buisnis deal, (if Menno goes for it to of course)

Henk

[HOGE]

OK, you want proof. Here is the original photo when we proudley launched our boot at saterday the 5 th of may 2007, after the boot was retubed at monday the 30 th of april.

link
You can see the timestamp on the photo. Ther was no need to use to put the boat and risc and so make the glue would come loose. There was no event, no need at all to use the boat sooner then advised..

We left her allone drying for four days and after that it was still falling appart.

Henk

[HOGE]

OK, there she is all ready to go (without the need to hang out to dry a couple of day's) .



Without any letters, ropes and figures, but that is in the planning for the coming day's

Also I will tell you more (if you like) about HOGE, the rescue organisation I'm in.

Henk

[Biggles]

Personally I think PVC should be restricted to bedroom activities

[HOGE]

Originally Posted by Biggles

Personally I think PVC should be restricted to bedroom activities

And call it "rubbers" to suggest good quallity....

Henk

[HOGE]

I prommest some pictyres of the old tubes from gemini, this is weeks befor we took them of:










Henk

[jwalker]

That sticky glue looks very like what you'd expect if a non-PVC adhesive had been used. Henk, did all the glued areas come away feeling sticky?

[HOGE]

Originally Posted by jwalker

That sticky glue looks very like what you'd expect if a non-PVC adhesive had been used. Henk, did all the glued areas come away feeling sticky?

The been used is Sabaplast 70T with hardner Vulca L.

The problem was maybe that de hardner the sun used clristelised, but he used it anyway. But I tried later to glue som things at the boat with new glue and hardner but that didn'd do the job either.

After gluing the new tubes we good sail the day after, no prob. And pulling it loose by hand is out of the question.

I thing you have a point there, it wasn'd the wright glue, but wat glue did he used on the boats who lived for 15 years and longer, as he claims on his website?

Henk

[BogMonster]

This is a proper inner tube, also done by Mr Tilley and fitted by a hamfisted amateur (me!)

Though I would have got complete new toobs if it were an option, but it's a bit far....

You have my total sympathy with the problems, I know only too well how it feels like to have a deflated boat...

[springtide66]

Been watching this with interest. We bought tubes from Mr. Bowran last year. Took ages to get them after lots of promises. Told us his son travels round the world fitting their tubes!
The "workshop" is his garage. He told us the "kit" came with adhesive then it didnt,then we werent sure if it did or not! So we bought our own and have bonded the tubes to the hull we only need to fit the "trim" around the edges now. The tubes are bigger than the old ones which he had as a pattern, but we dont think it will cause a problem.

To sum up wouldnt touch Gemini with a barge pole! I feel he trades on the good name that gemini ribs have, which is very misleading.

[Nasher]

I wonder how aware the other Gemini are of all this?

Nasher

[springtide66]

Originally Posted by Nasher

I wonder how aware the other Gemini are of all this?

Nasher

Whoever created his web site didnt charge enough! It looks like a proper company on there!!

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by springtide66

Whoever created his web site didnt charge enough! It looks like a proper company on there!!

Amusing how one of the rather common consoles is a 'Gemini Accessory' too. That pic gets everywhere

[Jizm]

Originally Posted by springtide66

have bonded the tubes to the hull we only need to fit the "trim" around the edges now.

Haven't you finished that boat yet????

[springtide66]

Originally Posted by Jizm

Haven't you finished that boat yet????

He He.... no mate we havnt! getting there tho! We got a good deal on an aframe!!!!