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Old 19 May 2009, 04:56   #1
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tobermory accident

Nasty incident last night at entrance to Tobermory harbour, one fatality.

Reports I've seen (MCA website) say a blue RIB with four folk on board hit the rocks at the nortth end of Calve Island. Seems they were holidaying in the area.

Tragic accident in any circumstances. Hope it's no-one on here?
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Old 19 May 2009, 06:00   #2
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http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga07-...92B&m=5&y=2009
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Old 19 May 2009, 07:24   #3
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Poor fella.
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Old 19 May 2009, 08:26   #4
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Nasty - I see they were quick enough to point out no lifejackets even though it had no bearing on the matter!!!

My thoughts go out to the poor man's family.
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Old 19 May 2009, 09:07   #5
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very sad and very sorry

Cod, i think 11.30 pm is relevant with respect to lifejackets dont you. On the courses i have been on, before we go out at night, we do all our checks and make sure we all have these on. I think its sensible at this time of night regardless of conditions.
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Old 19 May 2009, 15:54   #6
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They appear to have been wearing dry suits, as a diver I never go to sea in a rib unless I am wearing one.

I will concede that if I go into the water unconscious it might not hold me face up but to mitigate that I would have to be wearing an automatic jacket, which is unlikely to survive its first trip, as I am bound to jump in the water to help recover the boat at the slip and set the thing off!!

I am sure some will disagree but if you gave me a choice of a dry suit or life jacket I would go for the dry suit. Itís the survival time in British water that has always concerned me, even if you are wearing a life jacket.
.

Its been a sad time for the sound of mull recently my thoughts are with the family of those concerned and the local community.
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Old 19 May 2009, 16:38   #7
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very sad and very sorry

Cod, i think 11.30 pm is relevant with respect to lifejackets dont you. On the courses i have been on, before we go out at night, we do all our checks and make sure we all have these on. I think its sensible at this time of night regardless of conditions.
Glasshopper made the point perfectly!!!
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Old 19 May 2009, 16:46   #8
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I tend to agree with Grasshopper and codprawn on the drysuits vs lifejacket issue - ie that I don't wear a LJ 99% of the time I'm in a RIB because for the same 99% of the time I'm wearing a drysuit.


It'll obviously be informative to hear whatever further details emerge about the accident in due course. I'm sure we can all generate our own scenario on the facts available, but it'd just be speculation and doesnt make it any less tragic.
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Old 19 May 2009, 16:50   #9
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Sobering reading for a chap who's just bought his first RIB.

Dreadful accident, thoughts go to the family and friends.....
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Old 19 May 2009, 17:48   #10
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...and sobering reading to see bad advice bandied arond, re:life jackets and dry suits, as well as life jackets and night passages.

Let's get a couple of things clear:

1. Drysuits are fantastic, and I love wearing mine when conditions are less than perfect, but their buoyancy is not predictable, and is just as likely to drown you by lifting your feet as it is to save you. Always wear a life jacket when you put the drysuit on. C'mon, it take at least a couple of minutes to get the drysuit on, but only seconds to put the life jacket on!
2. If you don't wear a lifejacket at night on an open boat, you're asking for trouble. If you think better, then you just aren't thinking.

It's a terrible thing to read about this accident, pursuit of someone's hobby has cost then their life, and their family has lost someone they can't replace.
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Old 19 May 2009, 17:54   #11
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I tend to agree with Grasshopper and codprawn on the drysuits vs lifejacket issue - ie that I don't wear a LJ 99% of the time I'm in a RIB because for the same 99% of the time I'm wearing a drysuit.


It'll obviously be informative to hear whatever further details emerge about the accident in due course. I'm sure we can all generate our own scenario on the facts available, but it'd just be speculation and doesnt make it any less tragic.

I know it's a bit of speculation but all the information to date points to head injuries being the main problem so I can't see the wearing of lifejackets being a major mitigating issue irrespective of the powers that be likely making an issue of this.

But, as you say, so tragic for the families involved.
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Old 19 May 2009, 18:06   #12
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While I agree there is no absolute right answer on drysuits/lifejackets I would point out one pertinent fact from a recent local incident.

Survival time in the water is of secondary importance to not actually drowning within the first few minutes. Once you are safely OK floating on the surface and breathing the next priority then becomes exposure and not dying from hypothermia!
Incidentally folk HAVE drowned in drysuits when inverted.......

I think pushing lifejackets as a reasonable safety measure on small boats is policy for MCA for good reason rather than of use or help in this particular incident. they probably push it for everything from crashing the car on the way to the marina to sinking off Iceland in a F8.............
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Old 19 May 2009, 18:28   #13
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Lifejackets and drysuits?

They hit an island doing a rate of knots in the dark. Head injuries all round. The only equipment that might have helped was harnesses, helmets and airbags. Seriously guys! A lifejackets and drysuit debate?
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Old 19 May 2009, 20:24   #14
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Just a thought folks...

Being a contributor to a number of diving-related forums, where fatalities are often reported, it is common practise to refrain from debating the details of the accident in a public forum out of respect for the family of the deceased. This is especially true when the circumstances are largely unknown.

Once all of the facts are in, there will be time to discuss and debate ad nauseum...

Just my $0.02 worth!
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Old 19 May 2009, 22:08   #15
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Shouldn't be having any debate about lifejackets, they should be worn

Nobody gets on my boat without a lifejacket n et on!! I love drysuits they keep me dry and warm sometimes,

I understand that they won't stop a head injury
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Old 20 May 2009, 00:00   #16
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Just for clarity, wearing a life jacket in a boat is always going to be good idea. It wasnít my intention to start a debate on life jacket versus drysuits but more in defence of the comment on a government web site that they were not wearing life jackets. This is from an organisation whoís own chief executive has advocated that flares have had their day.

On the subject of drysuits my suit is neoprene which is inherently buoyant if there is air trapped in the suit or not with a membrane suit the buoyancy relies on the trapped air which can escape and migrate around the suit both of which is not good.
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Old 20 May 2009, 02:49   #17
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I think Stoo makes a fair point about debating such subjects based on experience on other forums. I will refrain from doing this in the future until the full report is available
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Old 20 May 2009, 02:51   #18
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Thread drift here, but on the subject of dry suits, has anyone been in that situation first hand - with air holding your feet above the water? How did you recover? I remember the horror stories when dry suits were first coming in, and speculation about releasing air from the ankle seals to recover, but that was all hearsay not first hand experience or serious advice. (Mine has full socks in any case)
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Old 20 May 2009, 03:47   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo View Post
Being a contributor to a number of diving-related forums, where fatalities are often reported, it is common practise to refrain from debating the details of the accident in a public forum out of respect for the family of the deceased. This is especially true when the circumstances are largely unknown.

Once all of the facts are in, there will be time to discuss and debate ad nauseum...

Just my $0.02 worth!

What he said.
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Old 20 May 2009, 04:33   #20
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More information on the accident...

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1223515
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