Buy Gemini 470 or wait for 505?

[SpearRib]

I saw a 550 sell, but went for $27kAu, was near new looking, all 2010, 4 smoke 90hp etc.

But I found a 470, however it is an odd shape, the entry looks of, but it has a 15deg transom deadrise which is quite flat. However it is only $12k AU.

Ive seen some people mention a 505 model, but never seen one pop up for sale before, it seems to be the 470, 550 and 600 most common here.

[SpearRib]

They do seem like an ok boat, just not sure whether they ok for diving etc

[RichardinNZ]

I think I'd wait for a 505 or larger. From the ones I have seen, the 470 is a much smaller boat and a less deep V.

[SpearRib]

Originally Posted by RichardinNZ

I think I'd wait for a 505 or larger. From the ones I have seen, the 470 is a much smaller boat and a less deep V.

Hey Richard. Hope your Gem is going well.

Have decided to buy my mates 470 regardless. They are actually pretty damn good, have owned one before. Like you said, smaller, but compared to other brands here they are still way better length for length imo.

Has a 60 etec, is all 09 from memory.

I did see a really really nice 550, 2014, but was well out of my budget (3x what the 470 is costing me). The 505 is good too.

Ived owned a 600 and a 470 before. I suppose also the 470 is cheaper on fuel. Its deadrise doesnt appear as sharp, but compared to my old Caribe 440 it is wayyyy better.

I guess I can always sell it if a bigger Gemini for the right price pops up.

[RichardinNZ]

I think you are right, with the lack of boats generally available here, you would easily pass the 470 on should you find a larger replacement.

Mine is in a workshop this week having a couple of old patches put on by a previous owner replaced and a slow leak in one of the chambers sorted (I've not been able to trace it), plus a couple of other minor things. I've decided to get them to make me a fitted cover too (I'm using an oversize generic cover at the moment but it is so hard to put on and off I leave it off this time of year; I want something easier to use to keep the UVs off the tubes).

Next will be finding a different prop for the Johnson. I want to lift the WoT revs by 500rpm.

[SpearRib]

Originally Posted by RichardinNZ

Next will be finding a different prop for the Johnson. I want to lift the WoT revs by 500rpm.

I forget the brand on my Caribe, but improved hole shot dramatically over the original ally job.

The good thing about the 470 is, its done 130 hours and I know the owner so know its been serviced often, has a cover, safety gear etc. I will prob take out the removeable rear seat most of the time as is usually just me or 1 other out. That will free up a lot of room.

With so much PVC stuff here and even flatter hulls, it is refreshing to just finally have bought another Gemini. It might work out perfectly adequate as last one did (I downsized from the 600 to it), but worst case I wont make a loss on it should I want to buy something else next spring. Whilst Id have liked more size for the Cup, having owned the 470 before, I know this will be fine (I dont like going out in any yacht when that coast is too nasty to be out in to be fair). Hope to see you out there.

[RichardinNZ]

We only head out if Swell Map is showing 'green' plus the tide is OK (as we launch on the Wairoa River, Clevedon). Hopefully, we will too get out to the Cup; I'll need to keep the days free in my diary.

[SpearRib]

Its all about knowing your vessel and being confident in it. I know some spearos with far less caution.

For me I just cant be bothered if Im not in the mood for the lumpy stuff.

[jonp]

They have become hard to find lately but I would still hold out for a 505 or better still the 550. The 550 often come up on graysonline which are ex maritime boats and often well looked after with high spec electronics. There was a 505 on boats online (https://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats...state%5B%5D=WA) this one had a low hour Suzuki 140 and in commercial survey, the price on this one started at $40000 but dropped to bellow 30k after a couple of months, unfortunately gone now but for some reason that site did have a fair few gemini boats for sale.

[SpearRib]

Originally Posted by jonp

They have become hard to find lately but I would still hold out for a 505 or better still the 550. The 550 often come up on graysonline which are ex maritime boats and often well looked after with high spec electronics.

What is Graysonline? Not sure if you read the thread but not everyone is in the USA. Also have stated I bought the 470. After 8 months waiting, it just wasnt worth giving up a 470 that I know has been well looked after for $5k less than its market value. I dont think the 505 will appear in our limited market and the 550 is 3x what the 470 cost me and even they are fairly rare. They seem to come up in spurts, ie 2 in same month and then none for 8 months.

Having had the 3 but not the 505, Im happy buying another 470. They do not have as much glass in the back as the 550, but the entry is plenty deep and sharp enough for offshore stuff on good days and plenty for the sub 10km range I do. My last one was the best RIB I have had. Was better than my 600 as was more usable. If I were to ever go large again, it wouldnt be a RIB, I think 4.5-5.5m is their sweet spot.

This one is also conscious decision of a 120m long drive with no turning circle, so I can unhitch the 470 and push it into place. I couldnt have done that with anything larger.

The price I got it for from a friend is also 1/4 what I would pay for a 600 of the same year and a 130hp E-tec.

I think many people state things about the 470 without having owned one. Where Im in fortunate situation of having downsized form a 600 to a 470 and it was the best thing Ive done boating wise in a long time. But stupidly I sold the 470 and got a Caribe 440 which pails in comparison. I do love the 550 and no doubt one day it will be what I own again, but I decided in the end, it wasnt worth giving up a very sharply priced 470 that I know the history of and waiting potentially 3 years, just for the 505, which for me, is not better, it is just better suited for some situations. But if I was in that situation Id have bought another 550.

if you look at the entry of the variable deadrise on the 470, it is a lot sharper than look from eye level portrays and certainly sharper than the Caribe or the Nautica and all the much less capable PVC Ribs. The 470 looks odd at eye level but makes more sense under the boat.

The great thing with Gemini is, all of their boats are high quality, and all of them have a horses for courses option. For me, another 470 was the right choice at this point in time.

I could have bought a Naiad which are aimed at coastguard and police in NZ and Aus, but for the size I still prefer the glass in the geminis. I prefer glass even if more weighty. Not discounting Naiads, designed down in the southern ocean, unique outer skin over the actual pontoons. But they are not within my price range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPl2...el=UllmanSeats

Another thing I like about the 470, with only me or a friend spearing, I can take out the rear bench seat completely, freeing up a lot of space.

[jonp]

Originally Posted by SpearRib

What is Graysonline? Not sure if you read the thread but not everyone is in the USA. Also have stated I bought the 470. After 8 months waiting, it just wasnt worth giving up a 470 that I know has been well looked after for $5k less than its market value. I dont think the 505 will appear in our limited market and the 550 is 3x what the 470 cost me and even they are fairly rare. They seem to come up in spurts, ie 2 in same month and then none for 8 months.

Having had the 3 but not the 505, Im happy buying another 470. They do not have as much glass in the back as the 550, but the entry is plenty deep and sharp enough for offshore stuff on good days and plenty for the sub 10km range I do. My last one was the best RIB I have had. Was better than my 600 as was more usable. If I were to ever go large again, it wouldnt be a RIB, I think 4.5-5.5m is their sweet spot.

This one is also conscious decision of a 120m long drive with no turning circle, so I can unhitch the 470 and push it into place. I couldnt have done that with anything larger.

The price I got it for from a friend is also 1/4 what I would pay for a 600 of the same year and a 130hp E-tec.

I think many people state things about the 470 without having owned one. Where Im in fortunate situation of having downsized form a 600 to a 470 and it was the best thing Ive done boating wise in a long time. But stupidly I sold the 470 and got a Caribe 440 which pails in comparison. I do love the 550 and no doubt one day it will be what I own again, but I decided in the end, it wasnt worth giving up a very sharply priced 470 that I know the history of and waiting potentially 3 years, just for the 505, which for me, is not better, it is just better suited for some situations. But if I was in that situation Id have bought another 550.

if you look at the entry of the variable deadrise on the 470, it is a lot sharper than look from eye level portrays and certainly sharper than the Caribe or the Nautica and all the much less capable PVC Ribs. The 470 looks odd at eye level but makes more sense under the boat.

The great thing with Gemini is, all of their boats are high quality, and all of them have a horses for courses option. For me, another 470 was the right choice at this point in time.

I could have bought a Naiad which are aimed at coastguard and police in NZ and Aus, but for the size I still prefer the glass in the geminis. I prefer glass even if more weighty. Not discounting Naiads, designed down in the southern ocean, unique outer skin over the actual pontoons. But they are not within my price range.

Another thing I like about the 470, with only me or a friend spearing, I can take out the rear bench seat completely, freeing up a lot of space.

Thought most people knew what graysonline was here in Australia!!!!! https://www.grays.com/boats

I also know the difference in dropping down from a 550 to 500 but haven't dropped down bellow 5m. I do drive a 770 ex fisheries vessel and also skipper a naiad dive boat and the marine rescue vessel (being a marine rescue volunteer).

Where do you spear ? I tend to range from southern NSW to northern QLD.

As for you stating what you did buy, well I was a little confused actually. You do seem to of found some very expensive boats.

Like you say, I also wouldn't go bigger in a rib again hence why I bought another boat as well as the rib.

[SpearRib]

Originally Posted by jonp

Thought most people knew what graysonline was here in Australia!!!!!

Was a bit of friendly sarcasm, I just meant I bought the 470 and am in NZ at the moment. It is surprisingly really good. Much like the 5m plus series, you can take it out in pretty much anything (provided you a confident skipper), of course that is up to the individual.

The down side is you drop from 27deg to 22deg deadrise. Its not that bad, it has pros and cons.

Main Pro is it settles faster at rest and has less roll (not that the 27deg 5-6.5m is bad), you also get less of that when under way at slow speeds in a rolling following sea if you quartering. Again its not huge but noticeable. That pretty much sums up the difference in how they feel.

But the price I got it for was AWESOME. Having owned one before and knowing what I need to use it for, it was a no brainer. Id recommend them to anyone who wants the same quality and nearly as good a ride as the larger models. I mostly fish in good weather windows. But with the 470 you have the confidence if you really hit not so friendly wind and chop, it will get back fine. Ive read of guys out in 5m swells, which is not for me, but they handled ok. If its just a rolling swell fine, but if you out in 5m and hit unforseen 30knot wind, none of the boats are going to be that joyous haha. The most I usually see is a 2m swell with a 1-2ft chop, that is worst case. When Im out it is usually a 0.5m swell, so I get out quite far on that.

When I was back in Aus, I mainly fished the east coast (had short stint driving up from perth to some of the reefy areas). In NSW I usually went south, in Brisbane I would do the 5 hour drive to gladstone and get out to the south tip of the reef to spear. Mostly bluebone and trout (coral trout for those non aus spearos).

In NZ it is mostly XOS kingfish, real barrel like monsters. But I also shot 40-50cm snaps. I see a lot of 30lb snapper, but in honesty, they just too rubbery at that age imo, so I leave them to breed instead of trophy hunting.

I also Jig and livebait with Idiot Sticks (fishing rods for non spearos ;-p).

How you finding the Naiad?

I think the 470 is the perfect RIB for easy towing and retrieval, especially if like me a bit space restrained.

If I was going to spend $30k again it would be on something like below, or possibly a large Grady White glass mono hull. Although I love the Aussie stuff like Edencraft, Bass Strait, Haines SF etc. Most have side doors for us divers, and the ride is as you would know, unbeatable. But RIBs I will stick to 470-550.

Check out this ABP, Orca, AMF, companies like that produce really really thick plate boats for coastguard and defense. Not a RIB technically, but still pretty impressive for 30k. Im asking myself what the coastguard needs a 10" simrad ann 1W transducer for haha. Im sure for good reasons ;-p

Perfect 18ftr for fishing/spearing in pretty much any weather.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/b...0?bof=8dGrxcVh

[jonp]

The naiad's are just big boats that handle like other big boats to me. A few of the latest Naiads which are now being made in China have serious corrosion issues at just 12 months old but the older ones are good. I drove the maritime 5.8m $250,000 spec Naiad last year but only in calm conditions so can't comment really how they handle, it did have a sweet 250 Suzuki on it though.

I get to drive a few Edencraft and other commercial urchin, abalone boats. Ive been in a fair few of the Cootacrafts too, in fact the first Villan video was the revealing day of the boat when my daughter was sponsored by them (70kt weapon of a boat). The bigger Grady whites aren't my thing either, make sure you get to use one before considering buying one. I often fished offshore here targeting broadbill in one, which was both good and bad. The weight of the boat would mean in certain sea conditions the boat would drop so heavily off swells throwing so much water you would think we were in a submarine!!!!...5m boats would pass us so much more efficiently in those conditions.

Yes big kings in NZ, my daughters best friend had a 30kg model recently (young NZ girl often on the front of spearing mags over there). In saying that my daughter has been getting kings to 130cm locally here to and another of her girl friends shot a 138cm not so long ago at Uladula. My daughter is sponsored by Aimrite but unfortunately she's not getting much chance to spear now that she's skippering charter boats. The tuna season has been excellent this last season even on the yellowfin which were in good numbers even from headlands, my daughter managed several around 70kg.

.

[SpearRib]

We all gotta work at some stage JonP :-). Except if you are somebody who can hit a ball with a stick or kick a ball with your foot haha, seems a bit unfair life really.

Do you mean Gemma Shields? Darren Shields daughter (owner and successful comp spearo in his own right). Funny how all his kids love it, and your daughter loves it. Makes me wish I had of had children now, with all of this bounty we still have is going to one day die out due to over fishing. Sad really.

I didnt know naiads had been outsourced out of invercargill. That is no good. I know NSW Police use them. They had another brand competing with them, not sure if still around, wavebreak.

[SpearRib]

I need to do a little gluing, nothing major just a centremetre that has lifted from inside the Gem 470 glass floor and the anchor rub strake on bow, this will be bit harder as it is a thick rubber, Im not sure how to clean under it and then glue it into place, Im thinking after cleaning old glue, deflate the tube and then glue and sandwich pontoon to anchor rub strake? Also looking to glue a plastic anchor tie cleat (sorry brain fog, wtf is the anchor tie off called, its not a cleat or a sprit, the T shaped thingies haha, I have brain fog due to illness).

Then I need to clean what is quite a grubby boat, looks like engine grease and all kinds of nasties, what is the very best product for heavily soiled hypalon?

I want to replace the 12 year old upholstery, can this be a diy job or is it pros only? I notice the seat is stitched leather or fake leather (not sure which).

Lastly, what paint is safe to use on a Gemini Hypalon 1100 material? I want to repaint the gemini logo, has faded some.

[jonp]

Haha yes work, there are jobs though that can be fun on and in the water too!!!...then there's the unemployed who get out there everyday the weather allows.

No my daughters friend is https://www.instagram.com/alex_edwards8/?hl=en they are a handful when they get together!!!...Alex is a 40m diver.

[SpearRib]

Originally Posted by jonp

Haha yes work, there are jobs though that can be fun on and in the water too!!!...then there's the unemployed who get out there everyday the weather allows.

No my daughters friend is https://www.instagram.com/alex_edwards8/?hl=en they are a handful when they get together!!!...Alex is a 40m diver.

I use to be in IT, I should have saved money when I was getting $5k plus super a week, silly young man, funny how we age.

Currently ill so not working. Id love a job in or on the water, but think Im too old to find something in the industry in my late 40s :-(

Oh yes I know of, I have some friends are more functional spearos, in the sense that they care less for freediving and they are simply harvesting food, most hunt for deer here, which if you are into hunting, NZ has a lot of deer and goat varieties (pests to be fair, destroying NZs native flora)

[jonp]

Originally Posted by SpearRib

I use to be in IT, I should have saved money when I was getting $5k plus super a week, silly young man, funny how we age.

Currently ill so not working. Id love a job in or on the water, but think Im too old to find something in the industry in my late 40s :-(

Oh yes I know of, I have some friends are more functional spearos, in the sense that they care less for freediving and they are simply harvesting food, most hunt for deer here, which if you are into hunting, NZ has a lot of deer and goat varieties (pests to be fair, destroying NZs native flora)

I was in the building trade in the UK but a broken neck and back from my youth has seen me leave that trade behind. I did my coxswain 1 with my daughter so that I can skipper local urchin, abalone and dive boats (in my mid 50's). My daughter went on to gain her MD5 so she can skipper bigger vessels and is loving the lifestyle of being on boats everyday. Today is the first day in over a month the weather has stopped her heading offshore, so funny enough she's headed away with her swag and gun to hunt deer!!!!...after a night of pawning!!!

[SpearRib]

Geeze you raised the perfect lady mate. Hard to find women who like spearing, hunting and boating. Id like to find someone around my age who is also into Sailing. Love yachts. I think my ideal early retirement would be a 1250 Seawind performance/cruiser Cat. Along with a 10-12ft RIB and 18hp for diving/spearing off. And just taking off around NZ, then back up Aus East coast to indo papua interior (some amazing islands) back to Vanuatu (some sick diving there, Viz is insanely good) and right across the polynesia line, then from French Pol to Hawaii, then down West Coast US, through the panama to the bahamas (oh yeah), and then somehow get to the Med. Id die happy after that trip.

My back is shot too. 4 discs which take turns at 50%+ compression of the spinal cord. But if I stay fit, it behaves. Not at the moment it isnt.

I thought about becoming a skipper, I just dont know if I like the idea of Skippering power yachts for super wealthy F Tards. But I guess every job has wnkers.

What is the money like for an experienced Captain? Does your Daughter watch "Below Deck"? I rarely watch TV, but this is like yachtings version of big brother haha. I like Ben the chef in the earlier seasons. Those captains make between $150-250k. Which is similar to my IT career but I would be on the water.

Just not sure I want to be a deck hand, with my back, probably wouldnt work. Would need to somehow go straight to captain or it wouldnt work out for me.

[jonp]

No my daughter doesn't get to watch tv at all. I believe the legal rate for her level of qualification is around $55hr then overtime rates etc. However on the local charters she doesn't earn half that but loves the work, she's not money motivated. In saying that she's certainly in a financial position very few 20yr are from their own savings. She bought herself a 38hr old zodiac pro 5m as a Xmas present and is now looking into a new 4x4 to tow it, she could afford a new dmax etc but would rather a secondhand vehicle given how she uses her toys!!!. The mining industry have given her extremely high offers to skipper personal carrying rib jet boats and tug boats but for now she's happy in what she's doing. The mining industry like many other industries are pushing for a 50/50 work force of men and women, where there are very few women with both the qualifications and experience she is gaining. A job in the mining industry for her would be starting around the $140-$160k at this present time, which I think she will eventually head into when she has enough of what's she's doing.

My younger daughter has just flown back to Sydney after a few months in the NT where she's been cattle mustering, some of which was by helicopter. The opportunities in this country are so wide and varied that there is rarely go a day I don't think what a good move I made moving here from the UK.