Thoughts on this Rib ...

[CastleGrayskull]

Seen this for sale, so i thought I'd ask peoples advice.
From my research, they are good ribs, though the outboard is a little dated and from what I can understand is a 2+2 which can add some challenges with a whole heap of power suddenly coming on when you might not want it a low speed manoeuvres.

https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/...viper-9822945/

There are a lot of interesting ribs around at the moment - and while I'm not averse to a bit of rewiring here and there, engines would stretch my 'well how hard can it be' mentality

This other rib fits into my 'how hard can it be' category

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/326626069177

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by CastleGrayskull

Seen this for sale, so i thought I'd ask peoples advice.
From my research, they are good ribs, though the outboard is a little dated and from what I can understand is a 2+2 which can add some challenges with a whole heap of power suddenly coming on when you might not want it a low speed manoeuvres.

https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/...viper-9822945/

There are a lot of interesting ribs around at the moment - and while I'm not averse to a bit of rewiring here and there, engines would stretch my 'well how hard can it be' mentality

This other rib fits into my 'how hard can it be' category

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/326626069177

The osprey is probably the better pedigree but it's an undesirable layout whereas the tohatsu has better seating, engines look similar vintage & will be thirsty & I'd budget for an upgrade in the future with both. For the cost saving & better layout I'd probably be keener on the tohatsu if your happy to clean it up & probably retrim the seats which isnt realy expensive. Just be sure the tubes aren't degraded & do only need a good clean new tubes will be 7k+.

Edit just saw your other post re use as a rescue boat personally I think there both too powerful for this kind of work & 2 strokes dont like long periods of idle I'd look for something around 60/70 hp & 4 stroke preferably with two jockey seats or your crew will get tired quickly without a seat

[CastleGrayskull]

The Osprey looks well looked after as a pose to the Tohatsu that just looks like its been forgotten about - maybe worth a smarten up perhaps ?

At the price, the Tohatsu would be easy to re-engine with something newer and more powerful. Trouble is, there is very limited information out there about those ribs and what they are rated for.

found this tho ?

https://www.rib.net/forum/f8/tohatsu...n-6m-4701.html

I like the idea of something that will handle well in rougher seas - as mostly thats what we have in the UK, so a Humber Ocean Pro is on my list too.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by CastleGrayskull

The Osprey looks well looked after as a pose to the Tohatsu that just looks like its been forgotten about - maybe worth a smarten up perhaps ?

At the price, the Tohatsu would be easy to re-engine with something newer and more powerful. Trouble is, there is very limited information out there about those ribs and what they are rated for.

found this tho ?

https://www.rib.net/forum/f8/tohatsu...n-6m-4701.html

I like the idea of something that will handle well in rougher seas - as mostly thats what we have in the UK, so a Humber Ocean Pro is on my list too.

Iirc the tohatsu was built by porters you may find more info on the porters version.
I'm not getting why you think you need more power for a safety boat, most sailing clubs run 4.5-5.5m ribs with moderate power usually under 100hp. The tohatsu doesnt lend itself to rescue work as theres not much room for kit with the 4 jockey seats you could remove the two rear seats to free up deck space of course usually that would be an easier boat to sell as the trend now is for seats for all passengers, sitting on tubes isnt encouraged nowadays. The tohatsu probably makes the most sense financially & leaves more scope for an engine upgrade later on. Current condition is just typical of a boat that hasnt been used for a long time, a good clean & it will look 100%better assuming tubes are good & just dirty. The hard nose of the osprey is probably a disadvantage for a rescue boat too it would be fairly easy to remove the bottle rack & fit a second jockey in tandem for crew & you still have plenty deck space for kit & equipment.
What type of rescue work do you envisage doing?

[paulbrown22]

As per Ken, probably worth first working out what you really want/need the boat for and what the usage will mostly be.

For safety/rescue work, unless escorting large offshore yachts or something, generally most clubs will use ~5m boats for managing dinghies/windsurf/kitesurf/foil/kayak/etc. A larger boat always sounds better, but in reality manoeuvring my 9m Ribtec around and alongside a small sailing dinghy was a lot harder than in a ~5m RIB or a little tiller steer Rigiflex for several reasons!

At my sailing club we run a 5m XS (60hp) and 4.5m Ribtec (40hp) with brand new 4 stroke engines, which both hit ~25kn flat out but will idle all day sipping fuel and not smoking anyone out or clogging up unlike old 2 strokes! If you're doing a lot of small boat safety work, chances are most of your time will be spent at relatively slow/idle speeds, potentially with the odd burst to move around the course or to respond to an incident. But in reality you're unlikely to do any extended running at 25+ kn.

You can of course find a boat that will manage doing both to some degree, but in the ideal world a boat for small craft safety work would be a different size/design/layout/power to a boat designed for taking a family of 4 on coastal/long distance cruises.

[CastleGrayskull]

Interesting information about the Tohatsu being made by Porters def makes me a bit more interested.

As to the kind of work I'm likely to do - sailing regattas on reservoirs and potentially coastal - however, the bulk of the work is likely to be Dragonboat events - If you weren't sure, dragon boats are basically 20 man open top kayaks. When these things capsize, it leaves me with 20 people to rescue and a 12m semi submerged vessel full of water to recover. This is where a smaller boat tends to be less capable.

The other side of the equation is I want something to go exploring coastlines with, so I'm trying to find a happy medium as my drive isn't big enough for 2 ribs

I'm also not really wanting a 2 stoke for all the reasons everyone has suggested but finding the right sized rib with the right amount of power and it being a 4 stroke seems to be more difficult than I'd hoped. So take it as read that a 2 stroke would be swiftly replaced.

My main reason for querying power is regarding the fact that most of these are 2 strokes and replacing them with 4 stokes adds a degree of weight and when you factor in the weight of some of these ribs and the rating/suggested power, I wonder if you might lose the getup and go if you replace like for like.

My sailing club has a fairly sizeable reservoir - so we run 2 safetys if not 3 on some occasions to cover the area - they are all 5/5.5m with a 80 which are absolutely adequate - maybe the petrolhead in me just wants a bit more

Just to add to this, I'm fairly new to ribs (5 years or so) and I'm happy to be corrected and steered in the right direction - which is why I'm asking all the dumb newbie questions!

[spartacus]

There are 5-6m ribs out there with 4-stroke engines, but if you’re looking on EBay, then it’s likely to be older packages. This is a nice set up. The 70hp is probably underpowered, should be around 90hp, but it’s a new engine and will tick over all day. Seariders are well respected boats for sea keeping if you’re exploring coves. On reservoirs you need 4-stroke as a matter of course. https://www.caleymarina.com/used-sto...der-5-4-meter/

Same engine on a Ribeye 550. https://willsmarine.co.uk/sales/boat...age-ribeye-550

[Stewy]

This has just been posted on the ribcraft group. Be perfect if you could add this bench and make it removable.

[paulbrown22]

Originally Posted by CastleGrayskull

Interesting information about the Tohatsu being made by Porters def makes me a bit more interested.

As to the kind of work I'm likely to do - sailing regattas on reservoirs and potentially coastal - however, the bulk of the work is likely to be Dragonboat events - If you weren't sure, dragon boats are basically 20 man open top kayaks. When these things capsize, it leaves me with 20 people to rescue and a 12m semi submerged vessel full of water to recover. This is where a smaller boat tends to be less capable.

The other side of the equation is I want something to go exploring coastlines with, so I'm trying to find a happy medium as my drive isn't big enough for 2 ribs

I'm also not really wanting a 2 stoke for all the reasons everyone has suggested but finding the right sized rib with the right amount of power and it being a 4 stroke seems to be more difficult than I'd hoped. So take it as read that a 2 stroke would be swiftly replaced.

My main reason for querying power is regarding the fact that most of these are 2 strokes and replacing them with 4 stokes adds a degree of weight and when you factor in the weight of some of these ribs and the rating/suggested power, I wonder if you might lose the getup and go if you replace like for like.

My sailing club has a fairly sizeable reservoir - so we run 2 safetys if not 3 on some occasions to cover the area - they are all 5/5.5m with a 80 which are absolutely adequate - maybe the petrolhead in me just wants a bit more

Just to add to this, I'm fairly new to ribs (5 years or so) and I'm happy to be corrected and steered in the right direction - which is why I'm asking all the dumb newbie questions!

I tend to be more sailing club safety where the RYA make the recommendations/rules, but presumably the equivalent dragon boat governing body/association makes recommendations/sets requirements as to what the capabilities/capacities of the safety boats must be given the size of craft and number of people in each craft is significantly different to dinghy sailing? If you're expected to potentially reduce 12-20 people in a single safety boat, then I agree a 5m RIB is just a tad optimistic!

Re: 4 stroke replacement - you would tend to find a four stroke is slightly heavier (so worth checking the transom rating) and doesn't accelerate quite as quickly as the same boat with the same power 2 stroke, but personally having had both I wouldn't touch a large 2 stroke these days. Injected 4 strokes are just so much smoother, quieter and easier to live with!

[CastleGrayskull]

So you'd assume the British DragonBoat Association would have a long list of requirements for recovery etc - but sadly they can't even get out of their own way in most areas, recovery is rare in club situations - and they don't care about the charity event circuit, so this has to be on common sense basis.

So a general rule (in my head) I'm trying to work to - no more that 2 trips to recover paddlers.

I've just ventured onto FB Marketplace (I don't do Facebook so borrowed someone else's) There's all sorts on there - is there anything I should avoid ?

Also, I'm in no particular rush, so will be holding out for the right one.

[paulbrown22]

They seem to have some basic requirements from a quick hunt online, i.e. "Each boat should be able to hold at least eight (8) passengers and should not carry more than two crew members, that is, the driver and an assistant to help with any rescues."

i.e. supposedly min people capacity is 10 (2 crew and 8 potential rescue casualties), which if they expect that to be the actual plated carrying capacity of the boat (as opposed to stuffing 10 people into e.g. an Avon SR4...), then it would imply a fairly sizeable RIB presumably 6.5-7.0m+ to get that capacity!

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by paulbrown22

They seem to have some basic requirements from a quick hunt online, i.e. "Each boat should be able to hold at least eight (8) passengers and should not carry more than two crew members, that is, the driver and an assistant to help with any rescues."

i.e. supposedly min people capacity is 10 (2 crew and 8 potential rescue casualties), which if they expect that to be the actual plated carrying capacity of the boat (as opposed to stuffing 10 people into e.g. an Avon SR4...), then it would imply a fairly sizeable RIB presumably 6.5-7.0m+ to get that capacity!

Doesnt need to be that big to get the pax capacity, Zodiac 5.4 is rated 12 folk, a 7m as a rescue boat will be numb as for most scenarios it's also unlikely to suit the ops budget considering the hp required to get a 6.5-7m boat going

[paulbrown22]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Doesnt need to be that big to get the pax capacity, Zodiac 5.4 is rated 12 folk, a 7m as a rescue boat will be numb as for most scenarios it's also unlikely to suit the ops budget considering the hp required to get a 6.5-7m boat going

Super, thanks - I was about to look up average capacity as agreed typically it's a lot more than you'd think based on number of seats and length, but then got distracted!

[CastleGrayskull]

So that's about where I got to with the size of boat - 5.5 seems to the the perfect mix of space and enough sea keeping abilities should I want to go exploring. Once it starts getting over 6m is just a bit too big and potentially not nimble enough for its main purpose.