They don't got the Blues

[willk]

Foyle S&R have "lost" the right to use their blues when responding to a call out.

See the BBC report here.

The suicide/jumper rate is very high in Derry and these volunteers use a couple of Redbay jet driven RIBs to fish 'em back out.

Any thoughts?

[Courageous]

First thoughts - how ridiculous but then I guess with the greater public safety in mind if these volunteers are not trained in fast driving techniques........

[willk]

Originally Posted by Courageous

... if these volunteers are not trained in fast driving techniques........

Good point, but even rank teenagers from Derry get very good training in "fast driving techniques", generally with oversight from the Constabulary.

Sometimes they even catch them....

[Ian M]

Got to practice my fence sitting, I can see both sides of this, and I do not know how to get off the damned fence

[Razorbill RIBs]

Same for any LB crew in private vehicles......Even if the launch /station LR has a blue /two tone, it can only be used on the beach /not on the road......i.e not even if taking the ILB to launch close to an incident, which seems a bit daft tbh.....notwithstanding all the issues around 'blue light training'

Pretty frustrating getting to a shout at times, esp in holiday season.....you'd be amazed how many people actively try to block /stop a car who obviously needs to get somewhere (and that doesn't neccesarily mean speeding).

Theres been a FB group calling for LB crew to have blues for a while, but I just can't see it happening on private vehicles.....my thoughts are that it would be great if more people looked in their rear view mirror once in a while

[captnjack]

Originally Posted by Ian M

Got to practice my fence sitting, I can see both sides of this, and I do not know how to get off the damned fence

Is your arse sore yet?

In this country, volunteer firefighters are given lights to respond appropriately when suddenly called "to duty". Since government agencies like fire districts are self-insured here, its not really an expense to cover their personal autos at that time.

[Crusher]

A while back, it was reported in the press that Lymington RNLI lifeboat was prosecuted for exceeding the Lymington river 6 knot speed limit, while they were responding to a real "life threatening" shout. How mad is that? I will try and find the article and post it here.......

Sent from my iPhone using Rib.net

[Courageous]

That IS insane crusher!

[Mike B]

As I understand it the vehicle lighting regs are reasonably clear on this (compared to some Laws anyway!) but not sure if this applies to NI.

Any driver can drive using blue lights without needing any higher qualification other than a driving licence. (Although most agencies do insist on a higher level of training)

While using blue lights, drivers are exempt from a number of motoring regulations, including
treating a red traffic light as a give way sign
passing to the wrong side of a keep left bollard
driving on a motorway hard shoulder (even against the direction of traffic)

but disobeying the speed limit is only applicable to police, fire and ambulance. So even with blue lights this team were potentially breaking the law.
(NB there are some technicalities around this eg mountain rescue - an MR ambulance (ie used for transporting sick / injured people) is exempt from speed limits but an MR vehicle used to transport personnel / equipment is not)

Blue lights can be used on an "emergency vehicle" when responding to an emergency.

An "Emergency Vehicle" is classed as a vehicle used:
for police purposes (but not necessarily a police vehicle)
for fire brigade purposes (but not necessarily a fire brigade vehicle)
for ambulance purposes (but not necessarily an ambulance vehicle)
as an ambulance for moving sick, injured or disabled people
by a specialist company for fire salvage work
by the Forestry Commission for fire fighting
by local councils for fire fighting
for bomb disposal
for nuclear accidents
by the RAF mountain rescue
by the National Blood Service
by HM Coastguard
for mine rescue
by the RNLI for launching lifeboats
for moving around human organs
by Revenue and Customs for serious crime
for mountain rescue purposes
by the military special forces (e.g. The SAS) for a national security emergency

Technically the private vehicles in the article do not fit into any of these categories. The same issue also impacts retained fire fighters who are also not allowed to use blues on private vehicles (but they can be used if the vehicle is a company car provided by the Fire Service).

I vaguely recollect GAFIRS getting permission from their local Police District Commissioner or someone similar to use blues at some time in the past but not sure if this is still the case.

Mike

[Courageous]

"Any driver can drive using blue lights without needing any higher qualification other than a driving licence. (Although most agencies do insist on a higher level of training)"

So can I do it then when I'm on me way home and me ice cream's meltin'?

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by Courageous

"
So can I do it then when I'm on me way home and me ice cream's meltin'?

If you are driving an "Emergency Vehicle" and responding to an "Emergency" as defined in the regs technically yes!

But I suspect a "private car" and "ice cream melting" don't satisfy either of these.

[Courageous]

"But I suspect a "private car" and and "ice cream melting" satisfy either of these."

So that's a "yes" then?

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by Courageous

"But I suspect a "private car" and and "ice cream melting" satisfy either of these."

So that's a "yes" then?

errrr yes - before my edit anyway! oops!

[Poly]

Willk,

As others have said this affects all sorts of volunteer rescue / emergency personnel. E.g. lifeboat crew on way to a shout, retained fire fighters, ambulance first responders, mountain rescue teams, volunteer coastguard etc - at least until they get to their rendezvous point and get in an official vehicle. I think they could possibly argue the case that their official vehicle is actually being used for "police purposes", since I assume that the PSNI have the statutory duty to respond to persons in danger in fresh water in NI as they do here.

Whilst I can see why they want them on personal vehicles when responding to a "shout", I don't think it would be an easy decision for me to make if I was in the legislature. I've seen some "interesting" driving by both police and ambulance crews under blue lights as well as some ropey panic responses from the public, and this is from vehicles which are extremely well marked and visible, and with trained emergency service drivers who do it every day. An "amateur" in a poorly marked vehicle, with a less experienced driver possibly with the adrenaline rush of a shout seems risky to me. Which is better? Save the life of the person who possibly jumped in the river or hit the mother with the pram on the way to the call? At some point that sort of scenario is bound to arise.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Willk,, since I assume that the PSNI have the statutory duty to respond to persons in danger in fresh water in NI as they do here.

A possible marketing oppo. Do you do Salinity Test kits, Polwart?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by willk

A possible marketing oppo. Do you do Salinity Test kits, Polwart?

Ah, well I could probably make them one which would tell them what they want! But I might be better investing my time in some geography lessons.

[m chappelow]

Certain police forces seem to take the view more stringent than others ,though the law changed on blue light regs a couple of years back ,as far as i know the vehicle now has to be a dedicated emergency vehicle regestered with the local council,and the light has to be fixed.
the regs also cover retro reflective tape colours ,also blue flashing lights even on private land is a grey area if it can be seen from the public highway .

blue lights and sirens were an issue a while back ,
the driver of a Fire engine was charged with manslaughter when he sounded the horn at some cows blocking a country lane the cows bolted killing the farmer .
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nes-siren.html

[Poly]

Originally Posted by m chappelow

Two tone horns and sirens have been an issue a short while back as the driver of a Fire engine was convicted of manslaughter when he sounded the horn at some cows blocking a country lane the cows bolted killing the farmer .

Actually he admitted the lesser charge of causing death by careless driving.

[m chappelow]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Actually he admitted the lesser charge of causing death by careless driving.

Thankyou me lud ,for the correction .

[Channel Ribs]

I would have thought the solution is a green light.

They are used by medical personnel who are attending a life threatening emergency, common on doctor's and midwife's cars which are privately owned.

However, the real pain is insurance.

Edit: Actually that might be a load of tosh, I do not think the boat crews meet the definition of green light users either.