Staining on Seats - Page 2

neilb · 09 May 2007, 17:53

donutsina911

Looks like its a common problem then if you experienced it as well.

PeterR · 09 May 2007, 20:37

The only way you will find out what the problem is will be to take apart a seat by taking the staples out find a local upholsterers who will be willing to do this when have come to a conclusion the right one and not speculation you may find the dealer you bought it from more simpathetic,You may find that the printed lettering on the underside of the fabric is leaching through due to the constant dampness and salt.Hope this may help

RIVA · 10 May 2007, 08:10

No he didn’t buy from a dealer he bought direct from the owner.

So bought without the safe guards offered?

Such as negotiation condition to price?

Making sure the vat was paid on the boat???

Poly · 10 May 2007, 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVA

No he didn’t buy from a dealer he bought direct from the owner.

So bought without the safe guards offered?

Such as negotiation condition to price?

Making sure the vat was paid on the boat???

SO are you saying that JBT offer bigger price reductions for poor condition than a member of the public would? Surely that doesn't make sense...

...also provided the paperwork is present and correct then there will be evidence of the VAT status...

you're not actually suggesting that people should only buy 2nd hand boats from dealers are you?

Aidan · 10 May 2007, 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVA

No he didn’t buy from a dealer he bought direct from the owner.

So bought without the safe guards offered?

Such as negotiation condition to price?

Making sure the vat was paid on the boat???

Hi Riva, I am at a slight loss as follows:
JBT are th only importer resellers of Ballistic (current models) in the UK and if I assume correctly that you sold it theyn I am aure you invoiced for vat unless it was for export where you would have secured the correct vat details as I am sure you are responsible for same.

How thus can the boat not have vat paid" given it has to beone of your past stock. Unless I am missing something which I am sure I must be, then it would have to have vat paid on it.

Failing that I am sure you will have a visit from the Inland Revenue to check on your previous invoices.

neilb · 11 May 2007, 06:47

Aidan

JBT sold my current rib when new to its first owner who wanted to use it for training and bought it as a buisness venture and claimed the VAT back on it. When I purchased the boat I negotiated a price + VAT so the old owner would then have to pay the VAT I paid him to the revenue. As a buisness I don't think he can get away without paying it as the VAT office would shut him down. I have a receipt saying that I have paid the VAT to the old owner so it is his companies responsibility to pass this on.

I think RIVA is trying to scare us into buying from a dealer but the price difference can often not justify this.

Neil

donutsina911 · 11 May 2007, 16:21

Buying a boat is similar to buying a car - buy from a dealer and you often have better post sale rights and support, but sometimes at a premium. Buy privately and you can more than likely save £ on purchase price, but potentially be on your own after you've bought it.

The key difference for me is that with boats, the issues of VAT and warranty validity are greater, particularly when buying ribs (more so with obviously commercially specc'd ribs like a 7.8 pax). Establishing provenance / VAT status, together with the more robust consumer protection buying from a dealer seems to offer (plus, in JBT's case, goodwill) all add up to a dealer purchase being prudent in my opinion.

It's also worth bearing in mind that JBT tend to buy incredibly well and therefore the difference between dealer ticket price and private price may not be too great. For example, a newer version of the rib Neil has bought, with the same spec, with less engine hours and a brand new trailer (my old rib) was sold by JBT to the new owner for considerably less than the asking price of Neil's here....

http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16258.

In this case, had you offered to buy my rib through JBT, if you highlighted the engine/seat staining issues with the dealer prior to purchase, you would have found them more inclined to do a deal and rectify them, either because they would have beaten me up on price, taken a bit of a hit on their commission or both - a private seller may not have that flexibility. Each sale is unique, but for me, dealer purchase just makes more sense.

neilb · 11 May 2007, 21:12

The price in the attached advert was not the price I paid. I managed to negotiate a deal over £10,000 less which is why I purchased the boat considering the few minor problems. If I was going to pay £39000 I would have purchased from the dealer but this was to good a bargain to miss.

Neil

neilb · 29 May 2007, 19:25

Tried using Starbright Vinyl cleaner as suggested but without luck. This stain is definately coming from the inside and no amount of scrubbing will remove it. Every seat is affected.

If anyone is considering buying a Ballistic beware, as this may occur to you after 12 months. If any potencial buyers would like to see how their seats may look I am more than willing to show you.

Here are a couple of photos.

codprawn · 29 May 2007, 20:04

Get pink seats!!!

neilb · 29 May 2007, 20:23

Do you know anyone who sells pink dye. I could have the first pink Ballistic

codprawn · 29 May 2007, 20:46

What shade would you like sir?

http://www.parasolinc.com/ColorChart/index.asp

Seriously though have you tried bleach? If that fails you could try a different colour vinyl dye!!!

PeterR · 29 May 2007, 21:13

I know now why people loose interest almost three weeks later still talking about it and nothing practicals been done to actually find out why the pink is coming from the inside of the cover .You can hardly advise people not to buy this make of rib untill you know the cause.

neilb · 29 May 2007, 21:32

Peter

I have not dismantaled my seats to check the inside. I purchased some cleaner as suggested but as this did not work my assumption is that the staining is coming from the inside out. The only thing inside the seat is the foam. So my assumption is that the staining is coming from the foam. This has been confirmed by RibShop when I took it to them to valet.

So the cause is the pigment in the foam running into the vinyl when it gets wet. This is caused by using a coloured foam which is not colour fast. I could ruin one of my seats by taking it apart to prove this but I would rather keep my seats in one piece. JBT can confirm if they use a pink foam in the saets as they put them togrther.

I am not telling anyone not to buy a Ballistic, I think they are great boats but make sure you don't allow the seats to get wet. It maybe that Ballistic have this as a known problem and have now started to use different foam.

Only time will tell for new owners.

Neil

PeterR · 30 May 2007, 17:58

Hello Neil,That reply was kinder than i deserved I,m not normaly grumpy ,sorry.I have been told before oh Sir weve never seen that before and you know there not being truthfull.I would have said that a letter to their head office Explaining the situation and that could they consider they supply new ones as the original material used was unsuitable,Knowing the warrenty was only one year on the boat would it be reasonable that they could show a gesture of good will.Suggest you would pay the delivery and fix them on yourself.

neilb · 30 May 2007, 18:27

Peter

Thanks for your support. I will write to Ballistic and let you know how I get on. You never know they might want to help.

Thanks

Neil

Sarah G · 30 May 2007, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilb

Peter

Thanks for your support. I will write to Ballistic and let you know how I get on. You never know they might want to help.

Thanks

Neil

Why does everything have to be such a battle? Come on Ballistic, this is effectively a new boat - just outside its warranty - it was alot of money second hand - but even if this was the first owner the boat has not been badly looked after. The factory must surely be set-up to make the cushions, I cannot believe that it would cost them too much to send out a replacement set of cushions FOC. It is amazing how quickly badwill spreads and a reputation can be reduced to nothing...However, goodwill is remembered.

Good luck Neil - I'll be watching this space to see how the story ends - hopefully a happy ending.

neilb · 30 May 2007, 19:46

Sarah

Thanks for your kind words, I do appreciate it.

Ballistic Ribs are owned by JBT marine. I have already contacted them and all they could offer is to order me a new set of seats for £1000 + VAT. This seems extreamly expensive to me. I would be happy to fit them myself if JBT could supply me a new set.

I agree with your comment Sarah that good will does count for everything and the rib community is a small close nit community and bad feeling can spread quickly.

Thanks

Neil

Aidan · 30 May 2007, 21:05

[QUOTE=Sarah G;202341] Why does everything have to be such a battle? Come on Ballistic, this is effectively a new boat - just outside its warranty - it was alot of money second hand - but even if this was the first owner the boat has not been badly looked after.

Hi Neil, I agree with Sarah that even though the warranty has expired I believe that they should look after the Brand if not indded that specific product.
That is, given that JBT have indeed the agency (exclusive, I think) for GB or England etc, the product is only as good as the service offered, If they do not look after the existing clients inc 2nd handers, how can they expect to maintain sales of the product if people think that first Generation clients will be the only ones looked after.
They should take a leaf from LEXUS owners where I believe the Lexus garage keep the price of 2nd handers higher when prices are advertised as it lessens the depreciation of the car. They also ofer 3 year waranty which is fully transferable.

In any event, I have just received my 6.5 mtr Ballistic today, Hurray!!!!
It looks great which is a tribute to the previous owner, thanks Keith. I can only hope that I have a huge personality change and actually look after something as well as he did.

Meanwhile, Neil, I am sure if you bring the boat to a Upholstry place, they will re stuff or redo the lot for a fraction of the price.

Again I recall in Monty H. Swans write up on ballistic (now 3 issues ago at end of year of using Ballistic 1) that the Seat Upholstry held water and seeped it out when sat on. I will be getting seat protection for them made up.

I will keep you posted.

By the way, JBT have a very good reputation and proessional from what I can make out. I didnt buy from them but I bought from the person who bought from them so If I was them I would want to know the new owner as the new client (continual referral is most useful), again they should look at Lexus Owners Club. Their pricing reflects the upper end of the market so too should the service follow, oh and being friendly does no harm!!!

neilb · 31 May 2007, 06:22

Aidan

Congratulations on you new Ballistic. I am sure you will have a great time with it. They do handle very well.

I agree totally with you analogy to buying a car. The price of the Ballistic ribs does put them into the Lexus bracket so I would expect Lexus service. This is definitetly a manufacturing fault and Lexus would have recalled all cars and fixed the problem as soon as they knew about it. This pink foam must exist in all Ballistics, it is just that mine is one of the first.

So we can live in hope that JBT have a change of heart and my rib will act as a good form of advertising for them when potencial customers see it tied up around the solent. As it is it will surely put customers off as they would like their investment to hold its value

Neil