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Old 02 February 2010, 07:35   #1
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Short, wide and manoeverable

Looking for suggestions for a RIB for umpiring sail racing. Requirements:
  • Wide enough 2 people standing/sitting next to each other.
  • Good manoeverabliltiy
  • Quick to accelerate
  • Short - max 5 metres?
  • Minimum wash

Not needed:
  • High top speed

What would people suggest?
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Old 02 February 2010, 11:52   #2
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Bump?
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Old 02 February 2010, 12:51   #3
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It would be good to know what sort of water you intend to do the racing on, Sea, Coastal, Estuary, rivers or lakes etc. Depth of V hull etc may change depending on sea state normally expected. Also would you be acting as a safety boat, so towing might be option/needed or recovery of boats/people. Or are you putting a start line on it etc
Loads of questions but it will help others make suggestions
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Old 02 February 2010, 13:10   #4
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New or used? Budget?

you may find it a bit difficulty to get a RIB of that length, beamy enough to sit side by side.
I know the Ballistic has this layout in it's 5.5m format....
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Old 02 February 2010, 13:13   #5
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I can highly recommend a Quicksilver 4.3m heavy duty SIB for this sort of thing.

You can fix seating down to the floor (if you are cunning).

Highly maneuverable, relatively wide compared to many RIBs of the same size and very sea worthy.
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Old 02 February 2010, 13:18   #6
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check it out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Presuming Ed View Post
Looking for suggestions for a RIB for umpiring sail racing. Requirements:
  • Wide enough 2 people standing/sitting next to each other.
  • Good manoeverabliltiy
  • Quick to accelerate
  • Short - max 5 metres?
  • Minimum wash

Not needed:
  • High top speed

What would people suggest?

You could always check out other yachting clubs on the internet and see what there using as safety boats.
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Old 02 February 2010, 13:22   #7
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At the risk of getting shot by my ribster colleagues, and especially if you operate on inland waters, I would look at a catamaran rib or even a Dory. If you don't need rough water ability these options will give you both room and stability
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Old 02 February 2010, 13:34   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jizm View Post
New or used? Budget?

you may find it a bit difficulty to get a RIB of that length, beamy enough to sit side by side.
I know the Ballistic has this layout in it's.5m format....
You should be able to do it if that is your only/main priority (e.g. this redbay 5.1 has side by side jockeys, albeit not at the console). And the internal beam on Humber Destroyers is constant across the 5-7 size range (int beam 1.22m) - and Bruce managed to fit side by side's on his (5.8): http://rib.net/forum/showpost.php?p=262714&postcount=90

On anything smaller than 5m though I suspect you'd struggle to get side by side jockeys with comfort between them. A bench seat might be an option then?

BUT with either a wide console and/or bench/double jockey's you'll be very restricted for movement in a 5m boat and I would suggest it would be a poor rescue boat if required to perform those duties (restricted access to move around boat and very litttle space for a casualty to lie down).
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Old 02 February 2010, 14:21   #9
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Hi west kirby sailing club and they use 4 / 3.5 meter narwhal ribs with 15hp 4 strokes for umpiring and coaching and they have some 5 meter humbers for rescue boating and change overs during team racing. what west kriby dont know about team racing can be writen on the back of a stamp.
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Old 03 February 2010, 02:27   #10
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Originally Posted by C2 RIBS View Post
It would be good to know what sort of water you intend to do the racing on, Sea, Coastal, Estuary, rivers or lakes etc. Depth of V hull etc may change depending on sea state normally expected. Also would you be acting as a safety boat, so towing might be option/needed or recovery of boats/people. Or are you putting a start line on it etc
Loads of questions but it will help others make suggestions
Solent and esturies. Generally not primary safety boat. Absolute max budget 15000 (I know RIBs can be not cheap, but I've no idea if this is Rolls Royce or Ford money for the type of boat I'm after??).
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Old 03 February 2010, 03:32   #11
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Solent and esturies.
do you lay marks (or used fixed marks already in position)? if you're laying marks you presumably need enough space to get several marks on board at once rather than running back and forth?
Quote:
Generally not primary safety boat.
OK but that sounds like it is part of the safety fleet if there is a serious incident. Sods law is the least appropriate boat will be the one closest to an incident, or who's engine doesn't break down on the way etc!

You/the club will have a far better idea than us how likely that situation is - but if it likely from time to time, then I would want to ensure it was rigged appropriately. The Kielder investigation highlighted some issues (although they didn't believe it contributed to the outcome and so the RYA didn't make a big thing about it) - which might be relevant. Space to work on a casualty in the boat. Performance of the boat if heavily laden with casualties. In crowded boats the risk that fuel lines on deck get constricted by people.

Quote:
Absolute max budget 15000 (I know RIBs can be not cheap, but I've no idea if this is Rolls Royce or Ford money for the type of boat I'm after??).
Its certainly not the Rolls Royce end, but it would be possible to do it for less (I know of a club looking to acquire a similar sized safety boat with a 12k budget).

If I was looking to do it on a really tight budget I would give the valiant range some consideration. Their 'sports' range come with bench seats set aft and a reasonable amount of space in front of the console. Probably possible with their safety boat styled boats too.
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Old 03 February 2010, 06:30   #12
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http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/RFT158
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Old 03 February 2010, 06:45   #13
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do you lay marks (or used fixed marks already in position)? if you're laying marks you presumably need enough space to get several marks on board at once rather than running back and forth? OK but that sounds like it is part of the safety fleet if there is a serious incident. Sods law is the least appropriate boat will be the one closest to an incident, or who's engine doesn't break down on the way etc!
Keel boat match racing rather than dinghy team racing, so safety aspect is lower on the list of requirements.
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Old 03 February 2010, 08:04   #14
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Quote:
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do you lay marks (or used fixed marks already in position)? if you're laying marks you presumably need enough space to get several marks on board at once rather than running back and forth?
No need - can easily tow 3 big inflatable cans / trapezoids behind an SR4.


A delux version of the SR4 gives 2+2 seating, but not too easy to look around for judging, as your nose is not far above toob height! It's cosy, and the flooding hull will reduce the "get up & go", but that can be solved with a lower pitched prop.

How much elbow room do you need?
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Old 03 February 2010, 08:23   #15
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Thats 5 yrs old... so the engine, tubes etc are out of warranty even if it is all in v.g.c.

Ribcraft offer a new 4.8m boat (with 50HP) as a special for RYA clubs at just over 11k. If it can be rigged to suit your needs for not too much more that would IMHO be better than buying a slightly bigger but 5 yr old boat, that costs significantly more.

Quote:
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Keel boat match racing rather than dinghy team racing, so safety aspect is lower on the list of requirements.
ok - there is one question that no one has addressed though and that is the 'wash/wake' one. Presumably you get quite close to the competitors and can't favour either one with good/bad wash. How fast are you going? if you are properly on the plane then most hulls will be OK - but I suspect you acually spend a lot of time at about 10 knots churning up max wash?

Someone with more knowledge of wash might be able to advise - but what most people here generally look for in a rib hull probably is the worst in terms of kicking up wash at those sorts of speeds. That might push you towards something that is shallower V. But this will be at the expense of sea keeping/comfort. I'm not sure how bad that will be as I don't know how 'fair weather' your sailers are?

There's a humber hull (Attaque? - I always mix them up) thats generally not well thought of because its too shallow for rough stuff - but might suit you well.

What do you use at the moment and what does it do well / not well?
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Old 03 February 2010, 14:47   #16
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look into xs ribs for the smaller boats as well. have heard good things about them.
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Old 03 February 2010, 15:38   #17
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5.6m tornado for sale on their homepage:

http://www.tornadoribs.com/
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Old 04 February 2010, 03:35   #18
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have heard good things about them.
Cant you comment, you have got one?

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Old 04 February 2010, 04:08   #19
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wash

I had the 'pleasure' of driving the umpires boat at a world championship a few years ago.
5.8m xs with 90hp 4stroke with 2 average sized International Judges and a very large National Judge on board!

Of course, when conditions where 'soft' and flat, competitors where slow enough for a 6m rib to keep up below max displacement speed. When conditions picked up, the wash created by the RIB was negated by the increased sea state on the course.

Keel boats will be a rather less affected by your wash than a single handed dinghy for example.

When crossing to the other side of a fleet of 80 boats, you do need to be sensitive about who is being affected. Anticipation of tacks/gybes and passing behind was the key.
If you are doing Match Racing only, then this is much less of an issue.

It helps being a yachty, but the IJ's were also very sensitive to the issues around a powerboat in the middle of a fleet of sailing boats and never asked me to anything 'unreasonable'.

I was rarely asked to get very close to a competitor as 'ooching', 'pumping' and 'sculling' where obvious from some distance!

Therefore, don't worry too much about the specific wash characteristics of your boat as it's mostly a matter of your skill and anticipation.

There's no substitute for waterline length if you want minimal wash at 7knots. Go for something around 14m!!!!!!
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