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Old 07 December 2010, 14:02   #1
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Possible charges for Loch Lomond

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...ntral-11936181

Whilst undoubtedly great facilities at Balloch - they are not going to do themselves any favours by introducing charges at this level. There is no need for the level of staffing they typically have at Balloch.

The proposals mean that for someone who uses the loch for one day a year will be £45.

There is more info here: http://www.lochlomond-trossachs.org/...ond%202011.pdf and here : http://www.lochlomond-trossachs.org/...%20and%20A.pdf

Interestingly the proposals are slightly vague, and imply ALL craft (including those without engines) would be required to pay the annual £30 fee. If that means ALL craft, and regardless of launch location then this would appear to be in contravention of the Land Reform Act. It may also breach a long standing right of navigation even for motorised craft.

I'm concerned that the publication of this information appears to have happened just this week and is due for approval at the Board next week. Board members can expect emails tonight.
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Old 07 December 2010, 14:54   #2
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Isn't it strange...

You find yourself feeling sorry for people that you know you really shouldn't.
This morning it was the Aussie cricket team....
This evening the board members at Loch Lomond
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Old 08 December 2010, 05:17   #3
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i guess i won't be using loch lomond for the forseeable then. i only just registered my boat last week there aswell in that very office at balloch beside the slipway....doh.

there are other free slipways if need be and the good old clyde.

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Old 08 December 2010, 05:21   #4
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I've not had a chance to fully digest all that, but at a very high level and looking at it from a (very) occasional user's viewpoint, £15 / day is not too dissimilar to certain marinas round the clyde, which for the number of times I use the place I could live with, although for £15 there are far more places to go on the Clyde......


At a higher level I can see why they want / need to do it, but you do have to wonder what the high level fallout will be:
- all the "off water" spend in local pubs / restaurants from the people who donlt want to pay & go elsewhere
- the increase in work for the CG / RNLI as the people who don't want to pay take their boats out on the Clyde instead and discover this weird new thing called "tide".....
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Old 08 December 2010, 07:04   #5
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Originally Posted by 9D280 View Post
I've not had a chance to fully digest all that, but at a very high level and looking at it from a (very) occasional user's viewpoint, £15 / day is not too dissimilar to certain marinas round the clyde, which for the number of times I use the place I could live with, although for £15 there are far more places to go on the Clyde......
Ralph,

I agree £15 for the standard of facilities at Balloch is not ridiculous (although from zero is a bit of a jump), BUT they want another £30 a year on top for the privilege of using the loch at all - so that is £45 if you only use it for one day.
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At a higher level I can see why they want / need to do it, but you do have to wonder what the high level fallout will be:
- all the "off water" spend in local pubs / restaurants from the people who donlt want to pay & go elsewhere
- the increase in work for the CG / RNLI as the people who don't want to pay take their boats out on the Clyde instead and discover this weird new thing called "tide".....
Absolutely.
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Old 08 December 2010, 07:56   #6
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Passed Loch Lomond earlier this year on the way to Loch Oich. Was seriously considering a week in the Loch Lomond are next summer and bringing the boat.
This has certainly put me off, especially when there are other places to go for free.

Don't think this is going to be good for the tourist industry.

Best wishes

Jake
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Old 08 December 2010, 08:01   #7
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Ralph,

I agree £15 for the standard of facilities at Balloch is not ridiculous (although from zero is a bit of a jump), BUT they want another £30 a year on top for the privilege of using the loch at all - so that is £45 if you only use it for one day.


Absolutely.
don't forget the registration fee aswell. (i paid 10 quid last week) or is registration going upto 30?

cheers
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Old 08 December 2010, 08:13   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polwart View Post
I agree £15 for the standard of facilities at Balloch is not ridiculous (although from zero is a bit of a jump), BUT they want another £30 a year on top for the privilege of using the loch at all - so that is £45 if you only use it for one day.
Ah, I read it as an "or". If it's an "and" then I certainly won't be renewing.

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don't forget the registration fee aswell. (i paid 10 quid last week) or is registration going upto 30?
£10? was that with or without the numbers? I'm sure it was only a fiver when I did it (numbers were extra)
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Old 08 December 2010, 08:42   #9
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don't forget the registration fee aswell. (i paid 10 quid last week) or is registration going upto 30?

cheers
Xk59D, the point is there is NO registration fee at present. They are effectively proposing a £30 registration fee. There is currently a one off charge of £5 for numbers (I think £10 includes putting them on a "hard board"?) - you have the option of providing your own numbers - which almost nobody does. BUT the £5/10 charge is a one off lifetime fee. Then if you renew annually at the Balloch office it is free from then on (or £1 to do it by post).
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Old 08 December 2010, 08:43   #10
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Ah, I read it as an "or". If it's an "and" then I certainly won't be renewing.
It is an AND there is a worked example in the board papers.

There is an annual slipway option of £55, + £30 for annual reg. Which is you are there every weekend is probably OK.
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Old 08 December 2010, 12:44   #11
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the 10 quid was inc numbers. if you want boards it is an extra £7.50.

thankfully the ones that do the most complaining are the ones that will lose the most here (fishermen in 12ft boats) so there is a good chance this will be thrown out if they get their way.

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Old 09 December 2010, 02:52   #12
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Having only spent a week this June on Loch Lomond, So my experiance and opinion is very limited.

I think that a "blind man" could see this coming with the amount of investment and level of service at the slipway and shopping area.

I don't think that the proposed charges are too much when compared to other waters around the UK.

When my local water (Llangorse lake) charges £23 per launch with no facilities like Balloch and a 5mph speed limit. They do have a deal that if you pre-pay for 10 launches you can have it for £150

As for the regular user I think that the annual £55 cost is also quite reasonable. (@ Just over a £1 per week.)

One reason for my thoughts is that when we were at Lomond in June paying over £100 per day for fuel then an extra £15 would be tolerable.

Just my 2p worth. And now preparing to take cover.
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Old 09 December 2010, 04:29   #13
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Seabay,

Absolutely agree, but it's the occasional users who will not come back, and arguably will use more of the land based entertainment, B&B etc rather than taking the boat straight home at the end of the day.

Lets say I had a trailer sailer yacht / Wayfarer dinghy type of craft. Fuel cost is zero. Suddenly that £55 for my day on the loch seems a lot more expensive, especially when a good chunk of the reason most people buy that kind of boat is to take it to differnet places! Also to put the cost into perspective, I guess you have a reasonable sized lump on your transom - in my old SR4 £55 would have more than doubled the fuel cost for the day.

Yes, If I lived in Balloch & was out there every weekend I would mutter a bit but probably pay. Thing is I don't , so if costs go up I will be (much) less tempted to use the place now.
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Old 09 December 2010, 07:32   #14
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Having only spent a week this June on Loch Lomond, So my experiance and opinion is very limited.
Whilst i can see it as a slight irritation to someone coming up from down south for a week, it is as you say, just one of many costs involved. Likewise if you are one of the Loch Lomond regulars who is out every weekend then it will not be a huge deal with £85 total cost (registration and launch permit) when viewed across the whole year. The people it will hit are people who may come up for one weekend a year only (£60 for a weekend), or people who may only go for one day a year (e.g. we planned a christmas cruise of the loch a few years ago - how many people would have signed up for their only trip on the loch that year at a £45 cost)

Quote:
I think that a "blind man" could see this coming with the amount of investment and level of service at the slipway and shopping area.
I agree that charges for the slipway have always been the elephant in the room. Charges to use the loch however are ridiculous. Even if you don't use the NPA's slipway you'll need to pay them. The facilities at Balloch are good (and I believe they were upgrading Milarochy Bay this year) - but do they need to be that good? Do we need three ribs for the rangers to "patrol in" (I've only seen one out at a time!). Do they need replaced at the end of their (rather gentle) 5 year life? Do we need so many traffic wardens at the top of the slipway? Are we (the taxpayer funding the NPA) getting value for money?

I guess the question should be why haven't they been charging for slipway use until now?

Quote:
I don't think that the proposed charges are too much when compared to other waters around the UK.

When my local water (Llangorse lake) charges £23 per launch with no facilities like Balloch and a 5mph speed limit. They do have a deal that if you pre-pay for 10 launches you can have it for £150
yes but I believe they own the lake, so can charge whatever they like / can get away with. The NPA do not own Loch Lomond! They do own the slipway - and I have no real objection to a £15 fee for that. A

Quote:
As for the regular user I think that the annual £55 cost is also quite reasonable. (@ Just over a £1 per week.)
Most of the true regulars actually keep their boats afloat or in the caravan parks etc - which have their own slips - so they'll avoid the slipway fees (or pay one day at the start of the season).

Quote:
One reason for my thoughts is that when we were at Lomond in June paying over £100 per day for fuel then an extra £15 would be tolerable.

Just my 2p worth. And now preparing to take cover.
I think that is why possibly a "flat rate scheme" is not appropriate. I've never spent more that £30 on fuel for a day's boating.
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Old 09 December 2010, 07:34   #15
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If this http://www.lochlomondassociation.co....sp?TOPIC_ID=43 is true then the £30 per annum operational fee is voluntary... (I can see a lot of people rushing to pay that then!). I can see no mention of it being voluntary in the board papers.
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Old 09 December 2010, 08:07   #16
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i have only used a boat on the loch once a few years ago when i had a berth at balloch over winter as i boought a new outboard and they gave me a berth to have a warranty period. the facilities imo are not that great-try getting fuel/power/water for example.

i was planning to go during the summer for a couple of days but i'm firmly in the won't be paying so won't be going category if the charges are at the upper teir.

i was talking to one of the 5 people in the office last week and asking about their ribs. they said a searider 5.4 and a 7m ribtec i think they said. i never seen the ribs but that was what they said they used. they never said they were replaced every 5 years or anything as was only a passing interest.

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Old 09 December 2010, 08:46   #17
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they said a searider 5.4 and a 7m ribtec i think they said. i never seen the ribs but that was what they said they used. they never said they were replaced every 5 years or anything as was only a passing interest.
They bought an 11m Redbay Cabin Rib for approx £250k a few years ago.

A 7.5 m Humber with twin 115 HP engines, its 5 yrs old and they estimate a replacement cost of £100k!!!

The have a Searider 5.4 with a 60HP engine, and they are suggesting £50k to replace it.
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Old 09 December 2010, 09:41   #18
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They bought an 11m Redbay Cabin Rib for approx £250k a few years ago.

A 7.5 m Humber with twin 115 HP engines, its 5 yrs old and they estimate a replacement cost of £100k!!!

The have a Searider 5.4 with a 60HP engine, and they are suggesting £50k to replace it.
ahhh yes i've seen the cabin rib in pics-nice bit of tackle for a relatively small loch eh.

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Old 09 December 2010, 10:02   #19
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It may be small(ish), but the weather can kick up like stink in there.....
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Old 09 December 2010, 11:06   #20
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Quote:
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They bought an 11m Redbay Cabin Rib for approx £250k a few years ago.

A 7.5 m Humber with twin 115 HP engines, its 5 yrs old and they estimate a replacement cost of £100k!!!

The have a Searider 5.4 with a 60HP engine, and they are suggesting £50k to replace it.

See attatched pics...

P.s not quite £100 but it was £1.30 a litre back in June

I will say that on reflection How helpfull the Rangers were. With local information and sharing some local knowlage.
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