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Old 04 September 2011, 16:23   #1
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Poor rafting technique

I saw this earlier today in Cowes, a large rib moored alongside a smaller rib and close to us, by passing their mooring line through a plastic cleat on the tube ( the A frame and even the pontoon were in reach).
Luckily the smaller RIB crew returned shortly afterwards and moved on before the wind pulled their cleat off the tube.
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Old 04 September 2011, 16:37   #2
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If you are going to have cleats on your tubes you are really "inviting" people to abuse your tubes. I've never really understood what their purpose was as everyone "in the know" seems to agree they are not suitable for securing a rib...
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Old 04 September 2011, 17:13   #3
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Does not excuse someone else having such disregard for the boat they rafted to.
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Old 04 September 2011, 17:46   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce
Does not excuse someone else having such disregard for the boat they rafted to.
Doug I agree, but there are ejits everywhere. I can imagine the vague thought process: "oh that looks like a cleat i'll just tie on there" I don't think its mallicious, or even just plain arrogance, more a case of someone who knows no better.

So what are the cleats for?
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Old 04 September 2011, 17:52   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polwart View Post
If you are going to have cleats on your tubes you are really "inviting" people to abuse your tubes. I've never really understood what their purpose was as everyone "in the know" seems to agree they are not suitable for securing a rib...
Yes and no - they are ideally placed for easy one-person operation mooring up. The ultimate strength is pretty limited for long term use or rough conditions but I got my tubes fitted with them (hardly any Vipermaxes are) and I use them all the time.

I wouldn't like somebody to be rafted alongside me using them though. Not too much of a problem round here
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Old 04 September 2011, 18:29   #6
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As Stephen says they're very useful when your alone especially if using another boats ropes or ropes from the pontoon. Wouldn't leave it a long time though.

They're also very useful as guides for the stern ropes. Sometimes the angle between the cleat on the shore or boat or whatever you're mooring to is at just the angle where it would ruin the aerial and so we run it through the handle on the tube to keep it clear. Wouldn't have that problem with an a frame though obviously.
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Old 04 September 2011, 18:40   #7
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I get people tying off to my lifelines all the time, winds me up.
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Old 05 September 2011, 02:49   #8
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I cant see where in Cowes that was in the photo but from experience I would guess it was at Cowes Boat Haven ? They tend to try and shove all Ribs into a small area near the pontoon gandgway by the wall. When visiting once I radioed in and as soon as they knew I was a rib they tried to put in there with all the other ribs banging into each other, considering you can get quite a serge from the tides I said no thanks and insisted upon a proper pontoon mooring space as I was paying. They seem to think that Ribs are like bumper cars in that marina, even though some ribs cost a hell of a lot of hard earned money. I tend to avoid the yacht haven and if visiting go to Shephards Wharf Marina.

I have two cleats on my tubes, one each side toward the rear of the tubes but just infront of the rear seats, I don't use them for mooring as I have proper cleats on the stern either side but find them usefull for securing the mooring line which runs from rear cleat when underway just to keep it out of the way so no chance it could pop over the side and tangle in the prop. It also means the mooring line is easy to hand and I dont have to reach over the back seat to grab it.
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Old 05 September 2011, 03:03   #9
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I can't see a problem with these cleats, i have used mine for side by side towing of yachts and powerboats.

I did see a few years back a lifting test where they lifted a rib (7mtr) using just the cleats attached to the tubes and then they added another two tons of weight, it passed the test but it did look painful to see, must say it was a comercial rib though.
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Old 05 September 2011, 03:10   #10
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This mooring was actually Town Quay but I deliberately took a zoomed in shot to try to not to show the larger rib but just the issue. There were four people on the RIB and to be fair the person with the mooring line seemed very inexperienced but the helm came over afterwards and tightened it on the handle. This was a very heavy RIB on a small rib and no attempt was made to be reasonable to the owner. I was about to untie and retie it as I had just recovered a pair of waterproof trousers about to be blown off, Luckily the users arrived shortly afterwards when a third rafting was about to happen putting even more strain on., I was rafted for a short time very close but moved when I saw the mooring was likley to cause a problem due to strong tides and wind increasing and the smaller RIB needed to exit.

It took three people to pull the larger RIB and the final rafted rib to the pontoon when the small rib escaped.
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Old 05 September 2011, 20:40   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martini View Post
I get people tying off to my lifelines all the time, winds me up.
Me too.
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Old 06 September 2011, 02:35   #12
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The only places I have glued those cleats on is were people sit on the tubes and use them for hand holds on a dive boat.

Perhaps you all need to move to a sort of stealth rib by removing all handles and A frames then only fit hidden pop up cleats.

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Old 06 September 2011, 02:44   #13
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Quote:
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I've never really understood what their purpose was
They are first and foremost a handle, a well known re-tuber wisely suggested to me that a handle shaped handle is better since it can still be used to tidy a line to but is less likely to snag or be used by the unwary.
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Old 06 September 2011, 03:17   #14
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I disagree to some point. It is just a bit of rubber glued to the tube. Granted it's unwise to raft up an 8m rib in a strong tide or rough weather, but how is different to the rubber bow cleat on the front of an SR that we had? That rubber contact area wasnt much bigger but was used to moor off for 10 years in a v tidal and sometimes exposed menai strait. It never even budged.

The one in the pic is a cleat, not a handle, so it can be used as one subject to sense, irrespective of rubber or metal. Tie a small boat off, but nit a yacht for example. There doesnt appear to much force/tension at play here.

Has anyone ever seen a handle etc actually pulled off? If they have I'd be interested to know what particular weight/force removed it.

Whether a 7m boat with 2 ton added could be held or not by 4 handles I think also needs some evidence.

In the example though, I dont see much issue in a marina unless it was v rough
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Old 06 September 2011, 04:17   #15
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Poor and unsafe mooring practices are unfortunately fairly commonplace. Here at the Dry Stack our holding pontoons can often contain "rafts" as many as 5 boats deep (mainly Ribs) and some manufacturers are very mean when it comes to providing safe points on which to attach another boat (we have a Revenger 715 that has a "D" ring at the bow and two on the transome and that's it!!!!!).

We do try to educate our customers and have even provided useful tips on pontoon etiquette and safe mooring practices on our website Safe Mooring.

However, we still see plenty of examples of ludicrous attempts to moor a boat - often when people return after a long day on the water (or in the bar).
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Old 06 September 2011, 04:40   #16
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Having had an 8.5m Halmatic sitting on my tubes and catching on my handles I can assure you that they're tougher than you might think. I also lost a fender on that particular occasion which was tied to the handle with a rolling hitch. It got pulled off by Martini II in all the commotion but the handle and tube remained unscathed.
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Old 06 September 2011, 05:10   #17
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I use mine all the time, mostly to tie fenders to when moored alongside hard boats with rough surfaces that will chew up my tubes and also for towlines that are attached to my bridle ready for towing. I use the cleat to hold the tow line to one side away from the prop when not in use. I do not use them for mooring alongside or allow any one else to tie off on them.
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Old 06 September 2011, 05:17   #18
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So no ones ever seen one pulled off?
Therefore what are those that are touchy re others using them basing their fear on?( regarding mooring alongside not towing a big boat etc)
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Old 06 September 2011, 05:18   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polwart View Post
I've never really understood what their purpose was as everyone "in the know" seems to agree they are not suitable for securing a rib...
No .. not for a mooring or tie up.. but handy as a light eyelet for a stern spring when tieing along side .. but more importantly they are good for pulling your self aboard from the water, because they are usually mounted higher up the tube than a sagging line and for holding & controlling the boat when recovering onto a trailer, or any other manouvres when the boats on the trailer on the hard .. and for crew to hang on ! as everyone else has said I wouldn't have a rib without them
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Old 06 September 2011, 05:38   #20
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I've never really understood what their purpose was as everyone "in the know" seems to agree they are not suitable for securing a rib...
Who are those "in the know"?

I suspect you mean traders and builders. If that is the case

a) why do they fit them shaped as cleats, not just handles ?
b) Your statment infers they are privy to knowledge of them being ripped off. In which case, please can someone give an example of the forces required to do so on a newish boat.

Im steering towards the, they're strong enough for most rafting situations but not towing, at the moment. But open minded.
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