No kill cord in Florida = Missile!

[Searider]

Originally Posted by Miss Guided

Hi Folks

Thank you all for your responses to my posting on the Padstow Kill Cord Tragedy.

The whole thing was horrific but one of the pictures that really got me was the one of a second rib trying to board Milly and get her under control. I've tried uploading the photo but couldn't - its in the MAIB report.


Anyway, tThis has all got me to thinking about dual kill cords – one for me and, say, one for a second person, possibly a child, who might be driving. If I go overboard the two kill cords must easily separate to stop the other person going in as well. At the same time, the engine MUST cut out.

Do you have any experience, or thoughts on this please?

Many thanks MGx

For the RYA RIB Challenge where children are driving they wear one kill cord.
The Judge / examiner / instructor who is in the front of the boat out of the way has a second kill cord and can operate this at any point he feels necessary. This is an additional system and not common.

A very exceptional situation though and not common practice to have multiple kill cords.

My son's drive our RIB - close supervision is what's required and the kill cord must be worn.

[Jon Tallis]

If you have somebody driving who is not fully competent (child or adult) you should be sat alongside them in a position you can easily reach the throttle and YOU should be wearing the kill cord as you are the one in charge.
When that person is sufficiently competent to take control of the boat unsupervised, THEY wear the kill cord.
Simples.

[lakelandterrier]

Originally Posted by Jon Tallis

If you have somebody driving who is not fully competent (child or adult) you should be sat alongside them in a position you can easily reach the throttle and YOU should be wearing the kill cord as you are the one in charge.
When that person is sufficiently competent to take control of the boat unsupervised, THEY wear the kill cord.
Simples.

+1

[Daibheid]

Originally Posted by Jon Tallis

If you have somebody driving who is not fully competent (child or adult) you should be sat alongside them in a position you can easily reach the throttle and YOU should be wearing the kill cord as you are the one in charge.
Simples.

Exactly!
BTW it's important to ensure the trainees know the restart procedure and where the spare cord is should you go swimming. If you've ever had a trainee hook a RIB you'll realise absolutely anyone can be ejected. G Force rules!

[Jon Tallis]

Originally Posted by Daibheid

Exactly!
BTW it's important to ensure the trainees know the restart procedure and where the spare cord is should you go swimming. If you've ever had a trainee hook a RIB you'll realise absolutely anyone can be ejected. G Force rules!

Agree![emoji4]

[Iankristy]

Originally Posted by Daibheid

Exactly!

BTW it's important to ensure the trainees know the restart procedure and where the spare cord is should you go swimming. If you've ever had a trainee hook a RIB you'll realise absolutely anyone can be ejected. G Force rules!

Agreed g force does trump humans [emoji23]
Not sure a trainee should be anywhere near hooking a boat though!

[Matt]

For racing purposes, IIRC, all crew in board must have a kill cord attached.

In addition, there must be secondary caps or whatever in each case so that if you lose a crew member you can still restart the engine(s).

My personal view for pleasure boating - the most competent person on board should be on a kill cord at all times. No use if one of the kids were driving and I go overboard. If I go overboard, I want the boat to emergency stop.

With a competent mate on board, I'm OK with the helm being the only one on the kill cord.

I started to write a bit about hooking, but I suspect Daibheid was more thinking about the type of hook where you're cruising along and cross a wake badly whilst turning, rather than a proper 80mph stepped hull "oh shit" moment.

[vikingsmb]

Dont get me started on people in the states not wearing kill cords,
loads of videos of people driving small boats not just ribs on youtube, not wearing the kill cord, I make it a habit of commenting of the benefits of wearing the kill cord. People not wearing kill cords is my biggest pet hate

[Matt]

Not just the states. We’re just as bad in the kingdom. I see it all over the place.
It’s inexcusable

[vikingsmb]

Originally Posted by Matt

Not just the states. We’re just as bad in the kingdom. I see it all over the place.
It’s inexcusable

Matt i agree buddy, i'm a safetyboat driver at a major club in south wales, and the amount of times i seen private owner boats out with no kill cords it winds me up,
i'm based at CBYC buddy

[Matt]

Yeah, safety boat duties is what I cut my teeth on too. Happy days.

[vikingsmb]

Originally Posted by Matt

Yeah, safety boat duties is what I cut my teeth on too. Happy days.

i'm bosun at the club, i love it, , got 6 ribs to use plus 4 jaffas

[neil.mccrirrick]

Agree with Jon Tallis. I let my grandkids drive my rib and have let me 78 year old father in law. I sit on the tube next to them. Kill cord is on me and I can each the throttle and wheel if necessary

Tbh they are happier to have a go with this set up.

[Matt]

I have 2 kill cord locations on mine. Both passenger/navigator (in racing parlance) and helm/throttleman location.

I use the quicksilver toggleswitch because in an emergency if a cord got pulled, I can just flick the switch to restart rather than have to scrabble around to put a spare cap on. (not proposing that as advisable, I do practice what I preach. But it's another "option" to deal with the unknown). It also means for general nobbing around when I wouldn't connect the navigator, I don't need the 2nd cord dangling in the way either.

And, FWIW, I think I recall a thread on here once saying keep an eye on the condition of your killcords. They can degrade and eventually snap. So have just ordered a new pair for the coming season, with the old one(s) being relegated to spares. The current ones the elastic has become a bit less elastic than it was.

[Daibheid]

Originally Posted by Iankristy

Agreed g force does trump humans [emoji23]
Not sure a trainee should be anywhere near hooking a boat though!

Hooking is not the exclusive preserve of trainees - by a long way! On that occasion I was Training Officer for a dive club and training a few coxw'ns. They have to get experience at all speeds and that trip was me, a trainee diver and a trainee cox with quite a few hours up. We were on a long transit to collect divers on an empty 4.5m 50HP RIB with tiller steering. I'd taken the boat out to sea and clear of the nasty stuff and handed over to drive a straight line to a mark 5nm away. I'd cautioned that the tiller needed a firm hand and if it got away at all, it'd end badly and to take it easy and get a feel before using big throttle openings.

All was well for five minutes, 1m open ocean swell on a sunny smooth sea. But rather than sit on the tubes as normal, I chose to sit across the deck, back and feet wedged between the tubes. Just in case.
I noticed our heading swing a few degrees a few times and called it out. Perfectly normal instructing anyone driving fast boats. We eventually seemed to settle in to a straight course and inevitably the throttle got wrung open while holding a straight course. Ideal conditions and part of learning but sooner than I wanted and said so. Seconds later I thought we were starting to veer slightly again to port so turned and said "watch it". I saw the port side trainee leaning into the RIB at which point g-force was kicking in and he'd no leverage except his bootees on a wet deck and I could see it coming. It was over in a millisecond.
At full thrust, he let the tiller get that fraction too much off centre, overpower him and break free. At about 25-30 knots, the engine snapped hard to starboard, the RIB turned instantly and violently 90deg to port. The forward momentum made it continue on the original line of travel - now sideways - and it promptly used the starboard side of the V hull as a ramp and launched itself into a sideways jump.
The keel and chines stopped it -like it hit a wall. The cox went up and flew across the boat and slammed into the diver sitting opposite on the starboard quarter. Adrenaline had them locked on to the small A-frame and incredibly they withstood the G force from being ejected along with the Cox cannoning across! The RIB almost flipped over sideways but settled for violently rocking
There was spray everywhere, the engine screaming on the rev-limiter and cavitating and two white as a sheet faces tangled together. I was certain there had be a fractured skull -or worse- and the blood was about to come. I killed the engine and keyed the radio about to call a Mayday but realized no-one appeared to have been hurt. It was a very scary experience all round especially as back in the early Nineties kill-cords were rare.
Near perfect conditions but big tiller outboards need attention especially on a boat with a lot of keel.
I put the utterly terrified and distraught trainee cox back on the helm and we continued at a more subdued pace.
Several lessons learned.

[John Kennett]

The most spectacular accidents do tend to occur in near perfect conditions!

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

The most spectacular accidents do tend to occur in near perfect conditions!

That’s because you’re off guard. I’ve spent all my working life in “dangerous professions” mining/construction etc. I’ve managed many risky operations, confined spaces/complex lifts using mobile/tracked/barge mounted cranes etc. No one ever got hurt during any of those operations. They were risked assessed, method statemented to the nth degree. The accidents happened afterwards, walking back to the car park or canteen when everyone had relaxed.

[Daibheid]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

The most spectacular accidents do tend to occur in near perfect conditions!

Could/should be written in stone!!

[Matt]

I've experienced the same - didn't hook it, but they really can bite can't they.
Can you get dampers for them?

Originally Posted by Daibheid

Near perfect conditions but big tiller outboards need attention especially on a boat with a lot of keel.

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

That’s because you’re off guard.

It’s partly that, but also because you’re unlikely to be on the ragged edge hanging everything out riding the prop if there’s a decent chop on. Even if you’re focussed things can unravel very very quickly.