New consultation for disposal of expired pyrotechnics

[Poly]

Originally Posted by willk

You've missed his point, Poly. He's talking about dumping shit OUTSIDE the Environment...

https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM

I made it to 1'30 and think you didn't mean to paste that link?

[Fender]

Originally Posted by Poly

I made it to 1'30 and think you didn't mean to paste that link?

You might have been a little premature ( probably not for the first time ), the last 30 seconds of the video is about the environment

[willk]

Originally Posted by Fender

You might have been a little premature ( probably not for the first time ), the last 30 seconds of the video is about the environment

The Youth of Today have no patience.

[lakelandterrier]

My non technical thought on encasing TEP in concrete was just a thought on preventing accidental ignition or chemicals leaching out.

I'm NOT advocating disposal of TEP in deep water - I'm asking what is the EVIDENCE this causes marine environmental damage considering all the other pollutants out there. To be clear I don't and haven't done this...but I have some TEP sitting in my shed as there's no way I've found to get rid. Par of the reason I've switched to LED flare - but I still see floating. orange smoke as important.

On that note is it OK to let off a floating smoke under any circumstances?- as when burnt out it will sink and cause pollution similar to dumping when out of code. Discuss.

It's not the first consultation I've read, but the quality never fails to disappoint, especially when none of the options given are solving the problem. If it so low down to do list why bother at all.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by lakelandterrier

.

.........On that note is it OK to let off a floating smoke under any circumstances?- as when burnt out it will sink and cause pollution similar to dumping when out of code. Discuss.

.

Flotsam v Jetsam

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/flotsam-jetsam.html

[treerat]

Pop 'em and drop 'am in the bin at Gloucester Services

[lakelandterrier]

Originally Posted by treerat

Pop 'em and drop 'am in the bin at Gloucester Services

No bins at the Eco-services at Gloucester... you have to take it all away with you, unless it composts

[lakelandterrier]

Originally Posted by treerat

Pop 'em and drop 'am in the bin at Gloucester Services

And if I ever need to pop a a floating smoke, my priority - and that of those hopefully turning out to help will not be be traaling the waves looking for the burnt out pot. QED

[Poly]

Originally Posted by lakelandterrier

And if I ever need to pop a a floating smoke, my priority - and that of those hopefully turning out to help will not be be traaling the waves looking for the burnt out pot. QED

That’s the typical attitude of anyone flytipping / dumping stuff at sea: “my bit is tiny in the grand scheme of things so doesn’t matter” might be perfectly Ok for the 1:1000 or fewer boats who deploy a floating smoke for real v’s all the people who have an expired one to dispose of.

If you are so convinced that long term storage in concrete is a good idea, pop them in concrete and keep them like that in your shed for the rest of your life and pass on your waste brick to your children to look after.

Or you could put the effort in to dispose of safely. I’m not sure why making the suppliers deal with the issue they create isn’t a solution to the problem.

[GuyC]

I think LT possibly made an off the cuff comment which didn't get the response he anticipated but when you're in a hole....

The potential problem with making suppliers deal with the issue e.g. the chandlery is that it would be uneconomic for them to put the infrastrucure in place to accept TEP's meaning they wouldn't offer flares for sale. You would heve to buy direct from the manufacturer and return them to them which would result in them being left in the garage. It is about the effort but at the moment only about 10% of people put the effort in.

Maybe you could lease your flares and you pay a direct debit every month which you can only stop by returning them. If you return them and don't stop the payment, you get new flares.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by GuyC

The potential problem with making suppliers deal with the issue e.g. the chandlery is that it would be uneconomic for them to put the infrastrucure in place to accept TEP's meaning they wouldn't offer flares for sale. You would heve to buy direct from the manufacturer and return them to them which would result in them being left in the garage. It is about the effort but at the moment only about 10% of people put the effort in.
.

Except that good chandlers already do this for very low costs, and I was actually thinking it would be better to make the manufacturer/importer responsible; so it’s built into the new cost. To some extent we do it with electrical goods, and we are looking at schemes for plastic bottles.

How do we know only 10% of people are disposing responsibly? Where are the rest of the flares - sitting rotting in peoples garages?

[willk]

Originally Posted by Poly

How do we know only 10% of people are disposing responsibly?

Apparently we recycle them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_60SwALOD4

[GuyC]

Originally Posted by Poly

How do we know only 10% of people are disposing responsibly? Where are the rest of the flares - sitting rotting in peoples garages?

In the report it estimated there are 360,000 flares in circulation so assuming they are divided equally between 1, 2 and 3 years old, it suggests that 120,000 flares expire annually. Only 12,000 were handed in i.e. 10%.

I agree that the manufacturers should be forced to deal with it but it is the mechanism for dealing with it that is difficult hence the idea that you lease them and they remain the property of the manufacturer

[lakelandterrier]

The point I was trying to make, obviously badly is:

If if is wrong and illegal to dump TEP ar sea because of pollution hazard, why is acceptable to release a smoke (or other) flare at any time, as they will fall into the water and become a pollutant.

If the argument is human life is worth more than than the maritime environment, the logic for disposing at seas is somewhat flawed.

Is the answer not to develop / approve - and fast - electronic or non-polluting alternatives and not put forward dumb and impractical options in a consultation?

Why can't LED flares be adopted by SOLAS?

Why can't an eco-smoke float canister be developed?

[Brian]

I say again:

Fire Stations
There are dozens of them, all over the country and YOU won't have far to go.
The staff there know all about "fire things" and probably have uses for them (training, markers, disposal etc.).