MAIB Report on RIB-X "Partner 1" - RIB Console detatchment

[Poly]

New report on a RIB console/jockey parting company:

http://www.maib.gov.uk/publications/.../partner_1.cfm

[Jono]

Bang goes the market for "home completed" Ribs....

"The International Council of Marine Industry Associations (ICOMIA) has been recommended to advise its
members that CE marked builder’s plates should not be affixed to partly completed boats."

[kitten]

The way I read the regs it has always been that way, and completion of the CE/RCD is down to whoever completes the boat for final sale.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Jono

Bang goes the market for "home completed" Ribs....

"The International Council of Marine Industry Associations (ICOMIA) has been recommended to advise its
members that CE marked builder’s plates should not be affixed to partly completed boats."

I think I would rather DIY at home if the approved dealer uses 4 self tappers to hold down a console!!!

Having read the full report it would appear that a lack of communication didn't help - the 4 self tappers were just transit bolts - if the console had been left totaally loose I suppose someone may have noticed!!!

[PeterM]

This is worrying reading - I'm off home to try & Rip the consoles out of my boat - I know for sure they are held in by 10 screws , but this seems to be the advised way outhill give to hold in seats etc on the smaller ( 4-5m) avons. I assume with some sort of bonding agent.

Really shows a lack of any kind of sense or responsibility by ' professional' companies . I to think that nealry all home rigged RIBS are over engineered to avoid this sort of thing - I'd rather have that any day , even if I dont get a nice bit of paper saying the boat is OK !

[martini]

Originally Posted by Blackroady

I to think that nealry all home rigged RIBS are over engineered to avoid this sort of thing

I put around 50no. 6mm woodscrews with finishing washers plus Sikaflex in my console. problem is if all the screws are going in to half an inch of soggy plywood its still liable to rip off.

I bonded a 2x1" hardwood batten to the underside of the floor where all the screws for the seats and console were going to be. I wonder how many "professional" boatbuilders go to the same lengths?

[Chris]

I think whomever rigged that boat should be shot, after all the console is only one thing on a list as long as your arm.

For me bonding in the console is the way it should be done and preferably the jockeys as well.

[Dirk Diggler]

By bonding I assume you mean laminating?

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler

By bonding I assume you mean laminating?

Yes thats the word I was looking for

The back two jockeys in my Rib are not laminated in however I had Osprey filt a bolt pattern into the deck which are fitted during the build, the seats then bolt in with 4 x 8mm bolts on each.

[bedajim]

Originally Posted by Jono

Bang goes the market for "home completed" Ribs....

"The International Council of Marine Industry Associations (ICOMIA) has been recommended to advise its
members that CE marked builder’s plates should not be affixed to partly completed boats."

Wonder if that includes completed hull but without engine & controls

[doggypaddle]

Having read the report, I am shocked and apalled at the standard of the workmanship that went into rigging the rib. The kill switch mounting is apalling! it looks like its right through a knee, and the steering pipes....well what can you say.
when you see something like this you realise just how well nailed together the old avon SR is! i dint think my console will ever detatch with 8 M10 bolts and half a tube of sikaflex!

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Jono

Bang goes the market for "home completed" Ribs....

"The International Council of Marine Industry Associations (ICOMIA) has been recommended to advise its
members that CE marked builder’s plates should not be affixed to partly completed boats."

If you take that literally, then a huge number of boats would not be eligible for CE plates, which would make them theoretically unmarketable?

I can only assume that the BMF are members of the Council and we will all hear from them at some point?

[Jono]

Hi Cookee,

Reading the report makes it clear that those hulls supplied without seats/consoles etc fixed in position should NOT have the CE plate affixed but be supplied with a declaration.

Partly completed boats should not be
given a CE marking, but if ownership is transferred a declaration should be issued by
the builder (Annex IIIa of the RCD), containing the following information:
• The name and address of the builder
• The name and address of the representative of the builder established in the
Community or, if appropriate, of the person responsible for placing on the
market
• A description of the partly completed craft
• A statement that the partly completed craft is intended to be completed by
others and that it complies with the essential requirements that apply at this
stage of construction.

The report indicates that this is done for “convenience” of the builder and that to have a CE plate affixed, the finished craft needs to be verified before the plate is issued/fixed. I guess that implies that it is up to the “home builder” to have his craft inspected by the builder (or his representative?) of the part-completed craft before a CE plate can be issued in line with the RCD.

Cheers, Jono

[Avocet]

Am I alone in noticing the difference in the first two paragraphs of section4 of the Report between the MAIB's recommendation that Rib-X:

"Accurately determine the number and locations of boats sold by dealers in the UK and Eire which have not been rigged and inspected by a RIB-X authorised representative prior to delivery and to check the standard of rigging on these hulls is at least equivalent to the standard detailed in the RIB-X commissioning guide, alerting owners to any deficiencies identified and any remedial action required."

and that Rib-X has:

"Written to the owners of the boats rigged out by Holes Bay Marine informing them of the situation and requesting they return their RIBs to the factory for examination."?

Quite apart from the lack of feedback from two of the owners whose Rib-X boats were rigged out by Holes Bay Marine, what about all the other boats which were not rigged out by Rib-X themselves or their North Wales dealership (being the only other approved installer at the time of the accident)? Section 1.13 indicates that the MAIB are aware of at least two other dealerships which arranged for boats to be rigged by unapproved installers.

The message must be that all owners of Rib-X boats should immediately check out who performed their rigging and make (or have made) an immediate detailed inspection of their boat before which the boat should not be used.

[PeterM]

I think Rib-x are only insistent on the boats THEY KNOW have actually been sold being rigged 'correctly'. I have to ASSUME that RIB-X shipped out hulls ( for display ) thinking that the dealers were sitting on a high number of display boats. Clealry this is daft - they mayinsist that dealers have 2 boats , but why they cant think about quite what is happening to all these boats is hard to understand.

There must be alot of boats out here outside of the approved rigging system. Surely RIB -X could do better than write to owners. Surprising they done make more of an effort , but I think final iability rests with the specific dealer/ rigging company - so not really in RIB -X interest to spend cash on it.

[Avocet]

But Rib-X haven't even bothered to write to owners: merely to the owners of the four boats that were rigged by Holes Bay Marine (of which four boats two were presumably owned by one of the crew in the accident: the boat which he had part-exchanged earlier and Partner 1 itself). It is, therefore, presumably the other two owners who haven't responded.

I would have thought RIB-X had a vested interest in putting things right: can you imagine the repercussions for them if another of their wrongly rigged boats was involved in an accident?

[PeterM]

Thats sort of what I was getting at . The effect on RIB-X directly is bugger all . OK so no-one will buy one , but if you buy a new car & two months later take it to kwik-fit to change a tyre which then falls off , you have a go at kwit-fit - not the original manufacturer.

I 100% agree that RIB-X should take responsibility to try & fix it , but generally nowadays responsibility costs money ( unless you are a bank ! then you get paid for not being responsible ! )

[Avocet]

I'm not sure you're right.

Rib-X's apparent failure to act in accordance with the MAIB's recommendations will (to those who are aware of the report) surely:

(a) damage the company's reputation;

(b) affect its sale of new boats; and

(c) seriously reduce the saleability of its second-hand boats (which may not affect the company directly, but which will affect their exchange value and, therefore, the price that existing owners can pay for new boats and, conseqently, the market generally).

I share Doddypaddle's shock at the revelations and in the interests of the safety of existing Rib-X owners, their potential buyers and those who sail alongside them, we must all (marina operators, harbour masters, marine engineers, chandlers, professional and recreational boaters and all on this site who don't fall within those categories) take responsibility for referring the content of the report to those to whom it may be relevant (actually: all of us!).

Sorry: for an ageing hippy that sounds a bit prescriptive but it is a matter about which I feel particuarly strongly and I don't propose to edit it!

[PeterM]

No Prob Avocet - I do agree its shocking that RIB-X aren't doing more & that we all should look to make sure all the boats out there are safe - it could be anyone of us following a badly rigged boat at a 'safe' distance when we suddently find 2-3 people in the water as the seats/ console has come out completely unexpectedley , and we then are put in dangeriosu situation.

I woudl have thought RIB-X coudl find someone ( relatively high up in the company ) to get in a car & drive round all the UK owners houses to talk to them at relatively low cost. My point is that in the eyes of the law they will not be held legally liable. Its not right by any means.

The wont realise they will take a cost due to the points you mention. I know I will be approaching a RIB-X owner who keeps his boat near mine ( only 15 miles from poole ! ) to tell him to look at MAIB report just to be on the safe side. I'm sure he wont like it , butI'd ratherupset him than not upset him & maybe kill him in the process. Hopefully we woudl all rather that happen ! If my boats crap I'd rather know ( Q - jokees about my crap boat !)

[Dirk Diggler]

As the penalties for non CE compliance are in theory quite severe, (huge fines and imprisonment) I'd have thought that it would be in Holes Bay Marines interest to contact the owners of the boats that they've bodged (rigged) and get them back for modifications!