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Old 01 January 2013, 17:39   #21
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Having thought about it some more - I think that some some of opt-out "waiver" for the agencies concerned might be a good idea. That way, people who want to conduct operations "outside the box" can be facilitated. A sort of DNR for water users...
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Old 01 January 2013, 18:04   #22
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Having thought about it some more - I think that some some of opt-out "waiver" for the agencies concerned might be a good idea. That way, people who want to conduct operations "outside the box" can be facilitated. A sort of DNR for water users...
I rather like that idea.
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Old 01 January 2013, 18:04   #23
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Having thought about it some more - I think that some some of opt-out "waiver" for the agencies concerned might be a good idea. That way, people who want to conduct operations "outside the box" can be facilitated. A sort of DNR for water users...
Sorry but I don't buy into that, I'm sure had these chaps in the OP felt they were in any real danger at any point they'd have gladly accepted the assistance. I'm not sure they should be signing any "waiver" saying don't help if it later goes wrong.

There's a video on another post showing a sib and jetski in a force 7 last week, should they have had to sign the same disclaimer ? What if they then really did need the help, are the services really going to sit and watch then drown ?

I totally agree they should have been much better equipped though, maybe if a penalty charge was implemented for rescues where its later proven people were reckless or negligent would be a better way to go.

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Old 01 January 2013, 18:10   #24
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I totally agree they should have been much better equipped though
Just a touch - out after dark without lights, comms, flares, LJs and God knows what else in the path of an advancing Gale in a nasty stretch of water!

I don't think that the comparison with Whisper and MattH is a fair one either - I bet they (note two craft) were fully trained, informed and tooled up.
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Old 01 January 2013, 18:23   #25
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Just a touch - out after dark without lights, comms, flares, LJs and God knows what else in the path of an advancing Gale in a nasty stretch of water!

I don't think that the comparison with Whisper and MattH is a fair one either - I bet they (note two craft) were fully trained, informed and tooled up.
We don't know how experienced these chaps were, so its not fair to compare them. Clearly they were neglectful in going out without any equipment but like I said should that revoke any right to be saved in the event of a rescue being needed, even if they did refuse assistance initially. Im not saying Whisper/MattH were in the wrong for going out at all, far from it, my point is just if we start picking and choosing who to respond to were done for!

Another example. A 16 year old lad jumped (without question, wasn't pushed etc) from our Torpoint Ferry last night at 9:15pm, sadly he's still missing despite several searches etc. Should they not have bothered as by all accounts, it was his decision to jump ?

At the end of the day that's what the services are there for. They respond when needed. End of. Of course in an ideal world we'd all like better education, training etc to prevent instances like this but just like any other service (ambulances respond to speeding cars that crash etc) where people do stupid things but still deserve assistance.

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Old 01 January 2013, 18:54   #26
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maybe if a penalty charge was implemented for rescues where its later proven people were reckless or negligent would be a better way to go.

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I will probably get slated for this but... the RNLi is a charity organisation money given freely by very kind people and the the organisation, does have plenty money to play with, so why should people reckless or not be charged for a mistake being it stupid or not.
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Old 01 January 2013, 18:57   #27
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I will probably get slated for this but... the RNLi is a charity organisation money given freely by very kind people and the the organisation, does have plenty money to play with, so why should people reckless or not be charged for a mistake being it stupid or not.
As a way of educating them to prevent future call-outs where lives may be lost. Much like our so called fines for speeding

I just think if your going to do something its better that then playing god with who gets rescued, based on how stupid they've been

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Old 01 January 2013, 19:35   #28
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Any rescue organisation I have ever spoken to has never wanted charges, either monetary or otherwise, to be used to discourage idiots.

The reason being that rescues get harder the longer they are left before help is called for and lives will be lost as a result of delays while people think on whether it is bad enough to call for help.

I don't know the full circumstances on the incident in question so there is no point speculating too much on this specific incident. However the guys themselves didn't seem to think they were in danger and seemed to had headed back without any help or assistance. ergo there was no need to rescue them. (although they may not be so lucky again)

Be careful what you wish for though, "authority" deciding on what we can and cannot do at sea is asking for the restrictions being placed on everyone that are aimed at the (few) idiots out there.
There is such a thing as personal responsibility and it is not a bad thing that there are still some places where, even today, you can still do things and have some adventure without asking for permission as long as you understand the consequences.
These places are getting rarer.
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Old 01 January 2013, 20:30   #29
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There's only one person to sort of blame for this, and thats the person who reported the situation, but then you can't blame someone for thinking they where potentially saving lives, catch 22, because once the authorities have been notified its compulsory for them to act accordingly.
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Old 02 January 2013, 04:33   #30
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Could it also be that the rescue team spent two enjoyable hours on the water hanging out?
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Old 02 January 2013, 06:07   #31
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I think that the CG is at fault here. The guys in the boat did not call for help, yes they were inadequately prepared for the conditions etc but they were feeling ok and in control. Many others I have seen were in worse condition in charge of a boat
It was the CG who, after getting the RNLI to check on the guys, tasked one boat to stay with them. Should have told both boats to go home and have their tea!

If necessary then they could be re-tasked if the guys got into diffs later. It was the guy's choice not to take the advice and if something happened before the RNLI got back to them well that is their fault.

I don't think it was fair or necessary to keep the RNLI boat on station - of course I do mention I am not in FULL knowledge of all facts.
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Old 02 January 2013, 06:25   #32
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Could it also be that the rescue team spent two enjoyable hours on the water hanging out?
In the conditions portrayed that would have been foolish, good job they didn't need rescuing

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Old 02 January 2013, 07:01   #33
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i was in weston on the 29th and not in the sib either ,the weather was appalling 4 men 2 life jackets ffs it`s a joke really ....if they had vhf at least they could have notified the cg all was ok...they were ok this time but if that engine had cut out this would be an entirely different thread
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Old 02 January 2013, 07:20   #34
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There's only one person to sort of blame for this, and thats the person who reported the situation.
OMG

As a Lifeboat Sea Safety Officer with the RNLI I would strongly urge everyone to make the "call" if you have even the slighest concern over the safety of a person or boat. Time can literally make the difference and you all know the rest. The RNLI will always rather be called out to a "false alarm" rather than too late for a real emergency.

Do not worry in the slightest about ringing 999 or making a Mayday/Pan Pan - talk to the Coastguards and let them do the "worrying".
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Old 02 January 2013, 08:13   #35
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Agree completely with the above. If its not an emergency situation, its still better the RNLI/coastguard discover it.

Just out of interest how many people send a Tango Romeo when heading out?? I have very rarely heard one over the net....
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Old 02 January 2013, 08:35   #36
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OMG

As a Lifeboat Sea Safety Officer with the RNLI I would strongly urge everyone to make the "call" if you have even the slighest concern over the safety of a person or boat. Time can literally make the difference and you all know the rest. The RNLI will always rather be called out to a "false alarm" rather than too late for a real emergency.

Do not worry in the slightest about ringing 999 or making a Mayday/Pan Pan - talk to the Coastguards and let them do the "worrying".
And thats why I put "sort of", and "you can't blame".
Regardless of there stupidity not having lifejackets vhf etc, they made it back. so what made the caller think that those sibbers where in need of rescue anyway, maybe the caller should have observed the situation a bit longer and thought (well do those sibbers look in destress) umm! obviously not in this case. However as a retired aux lifeboat helmsman myself who has attended many situations, I do agree with you, If in doubt call em out. But at least observe the situation and make sure emergency services are needed before calling.
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Old 02 January 2013, 08:57   #37
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As a way of educating them to prevent future call-outs where lives may be lost. Much like our so called fines for speeding

I just think if your going to do something its better that then playing god with who gets rescued, based on how stupid they've been

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Problem with "fining" people for calling out the emergency services is that they will delay calling out the cavalry until it's too late. Aren't we always being told by both the Coastguard & RNLI that they'd prefer a false/un necessary call rather than no call. If in doubt, call 'em out.
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Old 02 January 2013, 09:04   #38
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Just out of interest how many people send a Tango Romeo when heading out?? I have very rarely heard one over the net....
Good point - Personally I don't for a routine trip but I always file one before making a "passage".

However in all cases, even going out in my canoe, I always give a person on shore my passage plan and ETA.
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Old 02 January 2013, 11:53   #39
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We were out diving last winter and someone (on land) called out a "rescue" for us. By the time the local police arrived in their fancy 28ft RIB we had actually moved to our second dive site. We were obviously ok so they just asked us if we needed any assistance and when we said we were fine they zoomed back to their dock. No biggie. I'm pretty sure they would have returned if we'd had some new issue.

Making the RNLI wait out there with these 2 fellows seems a bit paranoid. And the conditions in the picture look downright placid.
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Old 02 January 2013, 13:21   #40
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Well it looks like a typical non story created by lazy journalism.

The actual events are recorded on the RNLI website here :

Weston super Mare RNLI Lifeboat - Shouts 2012

At09:56 LOM was paged by Swansea coastguard to say that there was a small rubber dingy drifting off Clevedon LOM authorised launch and crew were paged at 09:58 and assembled at the station, while the lifeboat was being launched the coastguard paged a standown at 10:06 B769 was rehoused and made ready for service at 10:30.
Laterin the day LOM was advised that the same boat was seen off Birnbeck Island apparently broken down. On our arrival at station the boat was seen to start up and make its way towards Swallow Rocks, Weston No. 2 launched and proceeded to Swallow Rocks followed by Weston No.1. After consultation with Swansea Coastguard and the LOM it was decided that Weston No.1 would escort the casualty up to Clevedon subject to the occupants agreeing, this was agreed and at 15:15hrs Weston No 1 began the escort of the vessel to Clevedon, the casualty vessel along with Weston Lifeboat No 1 arrived at Clevedon at 15-30hrs, Swansea Coastguard then requested that Weston No1 stand off and maintain a watch until enough water is available to recover vessel to shore. At 16:50 Weston No.1 handed the vessel overto Clevedon Coastguard and proceeded back to Weston arriving at the slipway at 17:20hrs.and was refuelled and made ready for service at 17:45 hrs.

But I still object to the terminology in the writing, how can the RNLI cliam the boat is a casualty when clearly, it wasn't.

I feel the RNLI bean counters are devaluing the often heroic and life saving work the crews do by claiming non incidents like this as casualties and no doubt 'lives saved' in the end of year statistics.

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