Hull filling with water - any thoughts? - Page 2

Pikey Dave · 24 August 2019, 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by boristhebold

I would not be worried with 30 Litres coming out

Personally I would be very worried. You need to prioritise your worrying schedule[emoji57]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boristhebold

...water always finds its way into the hull.....

That statement is simply wrong.
Ultimately I suppose it depends on the quality of your boat, my hull is bone dry under the deck to the point of being dusty. If I started taking on 30l of water I’d sure as hell want to know why.

ShinyShoe · 24 August 2019, 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by boristhebold

I would not be worried with 30 Litres coming out, water always finds its way into the hull, especially when it rains heavily, 30 litres isnt that much at all, if you watch dry stack operations when they have the bungs out and tilt the boats water pours out for a few minutes of every boat, normally it is rain water.

30litres is 30kg. It shouldn't be there. That's half a person of extra weight, moving around, shifting your boat balance. You won't sink. But it shouldn't be there.

Where is the water coming out of a dry stack? In the void? Or from the deck space?
If my void space is filling with water while stacked I'm not launching!

C-NUMB · 24 August 2019, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Personally I would be very worried. You need to prioritise your worrying schedule[emoji57]

That statement is simply wrong.
Ultimately I suppose it depends on the quality of your boat, my hull is bone dry under the deck to the point of being dusty. If I started taking on 30l of water I’d sure as hell want to know why.

Fully agree. I closed the ballast option on my SR 5.4 and installed a bung 2011. I check it every year and the space is still bone dry, can feel dry dust. If the space is basically air tight, there will be no water due to condensation, if there is a lot of ventilation in the double hull, condensation possible produce some water, but usually water is not due to condensation but due to leak.

BigE · 24 August 2019, 20:35

I think it depends a lot on the boat.
I had my boat out of the water last year, made sure it was fully drained on the slipway, got home, put it on the driveway, opened the bung, no water coming out.

Left it overnight (dry summer night), opened the bung the next morning and there was a good 300-600ml of water pouring out. The only thing that could have been is condensation.

C-NUMB · 24 August 2019, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigE

I think it depends a lot on the boat.
I had my boat out of the water last year, made sure it was fully drained on the slipway, got home, put it on the driveway, opened the bung, no water coming out.

Left it overnight (dry summer night), opened the bung the next morning and there was a good 300-600ml of water pouring out. The only thing that could have been is condensation.

Without taking this specific case into account, there is a pretty straight forward science behind condensation. We all know the thing with a cold bear from the fridge in hot environment, yes, you can have a lot of water drops on the can. But you need airflow for that. Too lazy now to dig the the tables, but if You check how much water(as an example) 300 L air can carry at 20C , even with 98 % humidity, we are talking grams, not liters. And if You have an enclosed space like rib hull, and condensation only, You need to have a seriously exchange of air in the hull to have any measurable amount of water there due to condensation only. I have had several bots with water in the hull, very common, but unfortunately that is typically a leak, not condensation.

Ferryman · 24 August 2019, 22:55

It’s not condensation, you have a leak. My boat lives in the water on a marina and as others have said - dusty bilges!

BigE · 25 August 2019, 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferryman

It’s not condensation, you have a leak. My boat lives in the water on a marina and as others have said - dusty bilges!

Apart from in my case where the boat was on dry land but sitting on dry land.

ShinyShoe · 25 August 2019, 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigE

Apart from in my case where the boat was on dry land but sitting on dry land.

If you assume you put your boat way in 100% humidity at 30C (a bit extreme but its worst case). 1 cubic meter of air at that temp can carry 30g of water.

If we then assume the temp dropped to near 0C causing almost all of that to condense out you should get 30ml dripping out the bung for every cubic meter of air.

I'm not sure what volume of air the void has - It can't be more than half a metre deep and ?2 meters wide so in a 10m rib... you *may* have 10cubic metres - I suspect far less...

So in the MOST extreme example - bug rib, high humidity, massive temp range. You could get 300ml from condensation. But you were on a dry summer night.

I think either:
- water hadn't made it back to the bung when you closed it and some time / movement and its dribbled back to the bung
- you have a pin hole leak somewhere above that had moisture in it - anchor locker, console etc. That leak then slowly dripped into the bilge while at rest - perhaps at the perfect angle to get the leak to flow.

OR - the measurement of volume was out by a good way...

Bigplumbs · 27 August 2019, 06:30

He says it was on the water for 2 weeks. If you used it for 2 weeks splash would account for some ingress. Also the main question is did you have a cover on the boat and if not did it rain in the 2 weeks. If it did rain for any period of time (perhaps overnight) 30 lts is nothing.

So simply put you need to determine how that water got there

ShinyShoe · 27 August 2019, 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigplumbs

He says it was on the water for 2 weeks. If you used it for 2 weeks splash would account for some ingress. Also the main question is did you have a cover on the boat and if not did it rain in the 2 weeks. If it did rain for any period of time (perhaps overnight) 30 lts is nothing.

It's supposed to be a sealed space.

"Splash" ?? Into a sealed space?

"Cover" ?? Seriously ?? It doesn't matter if he has a cover. It's a RIB the deck is expected to get water on it. It's not a floating arm chair. But water on deck should not get into the hull space if it's not designed to.

Quote:

So simply put you need to determine how that water got there

Yes... How it got in the hull void not how the boat got wet!

Springwick · 27 August 2019, 08:56

Thanks to everyone for the comments and views. The boat was on the water for 2 whole weeks, I didn't cover it at night but it never filled up with any great amount rain water, plus the water that drained out at the end of the holiday was salt water so must have got in from underneath.The screw in bung was tight and had the rubber seal in place.
My plan is to have a conversation with the dealer and get them to investigate further.
I guess I could dry the boat out at low tide on the beach half way through my 2 weeks and drain the hull, but I feel that the pressing point is why the water is there in the first place.
I will keep you posted how I get on.
Thanks again!

Bigplumbs · 27 August 2019, 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

It's supposed to be a sealed space.

"Splash" ?? Into a sealed space?

"Cover" ?? Seriously ?? It doesn't matter if he has a cover. It's a RIB the deck is expected to get water on it. It's not a floating arm chair. But water on deck should not get into the hull space if it's not designed to.

Yes... How it got in the hull void not how the boat got wet!

How do you know it is sealed and not a designed bilge area

Take a chill pill and polish your shoes

Pikey Dave · 27 August 2019, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigplumbs

How do you know it is sealed and not a designed bilge area

Because the water came out when he (the OP) took the bung out.
You wonder if people actually read these threads[emoji57]

gpsguru · 27 August 2019, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Because the water came out when he (the OP) took the bung out.
You wonder if people actually read these threads[emoji57]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Because the water came out when he (the OP) took the bung out.
You wonder if people actually read these threads[emoji57]

Yes, you are right Dave ............. on the 420 the hull void is sealed with very small plastic screw type drain plug right at the bottom of the transom, just below the the outlet valve for the deck sump.

Water will NOT have come from the anchor locker as it has no drainage facility ........... I used to leave my rode on the deck until most of the water drained out and then store it in the locker.

These boats are DEALER built ........... the dealer buys a boxed 420 from Barrus and then it is fitted out to the customer requirements which can vary quite a lot and there are a number of seating arrangements and console arrangements ..............

Now the bit that will make a few on here cringe ............. the deck furniture is usually sikaflexed and then screwed to the deck using large thread self tappers and stainless washers . If that work is done correctly, then there should be no leaks ........... if not done properly then rain and deck water will leak into the hill void. This is obviously not as strong as bonded consoles and pods, but it works on this small boat.

Another area worth looking at will be the fitting of the bilge pump in the deck sump .............

I had my 420 for 3 years and gave it quite a hard time (bumpy ride as its a medium Vee) and there was never a drop of water in the hull void .............

For those that seem to like the idea of calculating the relative moisture from the air in the void then they should also consider that it is a sealed void and the condensation and then vaporization is not a lossless process, although you could probably disprove this by the application of quantum physics, where the variables used become mind numbingly large and the final output bears no relation to the practicality of the problem. Probably better to watch paint dry .........

Springwick · 27 August 2019, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpsguru

Yes, you are right Dave ............. on the 420 the hull void is sealed with very small plastic screw type drain plug right at the bottom of the transom, just below the the outlet valve for the deck sump.

Water will NOT have come from the anchor locker as it has no drainage facility ........... I used to leave my rode on the deck until most of the water drained out and then store it in the locker.

These boats are DEALER built ........... the dealer buys a boxed 420 from Barrus and then it is fitted out to the customer requirements which can vary quite a lot and there are a number of seating arrangements and console arrangements ..............

Now the bit that will make a few on here cringe ............. the deck furniture is usually sikaflexed and then screwed to the deck using large thread self tappers and stainless washers . If that work is done correctly, then there should be no leaks ........... if not done properly then rain and deck water will leak into the hill void. This is obviously not as strong as bonded consoles and pods, but it works on this small boat.

Another area worth looking at will be the fitting of the bilge pump in the deck sump .............

I had my 420 for 3 years and gave it quite a hard time (bumpy ride as its a medium Vee) and there was never a drop of water in the hull void .............

For those that seem to like the idea of calculating the relative moisture from the air in the void then they should also consider that it is a sealed void and the condensation and then vaporization is not a lossless process, although you could probably disprove this by the application of quantum physics, where the variables used become mind numbingly large and the final output bears no relation to the practicality of the problem. Probably better to watch paint dry .........

That makes sense, but the fact that the water coming out of the sealed area in the V was salt water, do you have any thoughts where that may have got in?

Pikey Dave · 27 August 2019, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Springwick

That makes sense, but the fact that the water coming out of the sealed area in the V was salt water, do you have any thoughts where that may have got in?

IF it was mine, I’d be rigging (bodging[emoji6]) up a hose to fit into the bung hole & sticking a couple of PSI of air in & going round with the soapy water.

gpsguru · 27 August 2019, 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Springwick

That makes sense, but the fact that the water coming out of the sealed area in the V was salt water, do you have any thoughts where that may have got in?

Well, it wont be coming from the bow eye as that goes into the anchor locker.

How much water did you get on the deck over that couple of weeks ? ........ it could have been a mix of fresh (rain) and salt water (from use) ......... tasting and smelling the water is a bit hit n miss as very watered down sea water still tastes and smells salty.

I think I would set it level and then hose the deck until you have about half an inch of water in the boat and then leave it at least overnight with the flap valve closed and the void bung in.

I used to hose my boat out every 40 times a year as used it for fishing and the deck used to be covered in blood n guts

, but never had any water in the void.

The hull is warranted for one year, so I would either find out the source of the ingress quickly or take it back to the supplying dealer el pronto ...

Springwick · 27 August 2019, 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpsguru

Well, it wont be coming from the bow eye as that goes into the anchor locker.

How much water did you get on the deck over that couple of weeks ? ........ it could have been a mix of fresh (rain) and salt water (from use) ......... tasting and smelling the water is a bit hit n miss as very watered down sea water still tastes and smells salty.

I think I would set it level and then hose the deck until you have about half an inch of water in the boat and then leave it at least overnight with the flap valve closed and the void bung in.

I used to hose my boat out every 40 times a year as used it for fishing and the deck used to be covered in blood n guts

, but never had any water in the void.

The hull is warranted for one year, so I would either find out the source of the ingress quickly or take it back to the supplying dealer el pronto ...

Good advice. I'll do the water in the hull first and see if that gets into the void. We did have quite a bit of rain during our stay so this test will tell me if the water came from above or below.
Thanks.

willk · 27 August 2019, 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigplumbs

Take a chill pill and polish your shoes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woySeSNBL3o

gpsguru · 27 August 2019, 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Springwick

Good advice. I'll do the water in the hull first and see if that gets into the void. We did have quite a bit of rain during our stay so this test will tell me if the water came from above or below.
Thanks.

Unless there is very obvious damage or a manufacturing defect, then I doubt that it came from below the waterline.

I feel quite confident that the leak if from where the deck 'furniture is fixed, or from the Bilge pump fixing (if you have one).

What console and seating do you have ? .......... a good many of the 420's have the bench seat and deluxe console ...........