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Old 25 September 2011, 12:16   #1
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hmmmm....

ok, so what is it with a certain (not the orange nice one ) dark coloured fast ferry that runs out of Tayvallich
earlier today they came out of Tayvallich, and at displacement speed, headed towards a group of 4 canoeists, about 100/150 metres outside the entrance- so at displacement speed the boat had time to see they were there, and make a slight deviation around them. Why then does he head straight for them, and only at the last moment, literally seconds from them, and when one of the canoeists takes a camera out to take a photo of the incident does the rib alter course? and then pass within a couple of metres of the canoes. Now I know we had a little discussion on this topic sometime last year, but really, is such behaviour necessary from a local commercial operator- whats the driver (so to speak hehe ) behind this behaviour, is the driving position unsighted at displacement speed, is there the thought that canoes are lower in the 'order' than a motor boat, is there the belief that they are coming in from the left hand side across a 'shipping channel' - all in good humour guys, and the ones who know me will recognise my humour on this topic, anyway, I'm off to calm down and consider my options
take a seat, it might be a bumpy ride
now where's the address for the MCA
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Old 25 September 2011, 12:36   #2
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Old 25 September 2011, 12:47   #3
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:)

might have
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Old 25 September 2011, 12:59   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eilean mor
ok, so what is it with a certain (not the orange nice one ) dark coloured fast ferry that runs out of Tayvallich
earlier today they came out of Tayvallich, and at displacement speed, headed towards a group of 4 canoeists, about 100/150 metres outside the entrance- so at displacement speed the boat had time to see they were there, and make a slight deviation around them. Why then does he head straight for them, and only at the last moment, literally seconds from them, and when one of the canoeists takes a camera out to take a photo of the incident does the rib alter course? and then pass within a couple of metres of the canoes. Now I know we had a little discussion on this topic sometime last year, but really, is such behaviour necessary from a local commercial operator- whats the driver (so to speak hehe ) behind this behaviour, is the driving position unsighted at displacement speed, is there the thought that canoes are lower in the 'order' than a motor boat, is there the belief that they are coming in from the left hand side across a 'shipping channel' - all in good humour guys, and the ones who know me will recognise my humour on this topic, anyway, I'm off to calm down and consider my options
take a seat, it might be a bumpy ride
now where's the address for the MCA
Hi Chris
I sitting looking out over the bay as I type this. Same culprit I guess as last year? The only reason I can think of is that this is the wend of the Jura festival so they have been going back and forth constantly since Fri. Still no excuse and he big N should no better as he has been about boats all his life personally& professionally and knows theses waters well. Why font you hive him a call.
Cheers for now sorry missed you. B
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Old 25 September 2011, 13:04   #5
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Hi Chris
I sitting looking out over the bay as I type this. Same culprit I guess as last year? The only reason I can think of is that this is the wend of the Jura festival so they have been going back and forth constantly since Fri. Still no excuse and he big N should no better as he has been about boats all his life personally& professionally and knows theses waters well. Why font you hive him a call.
Cheers for now sorry missed you. B
Chris just had a thought the ferry is pretty high bow at displacement probable forward line of vision issued. I not putting forward a plea of mitigation for him merely an observation over years of boating around him. B
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Old 25 September 2011, 13:18   #6
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hi, yep, I try to give him the benefit, and I've taught on boats that they lost 'immediate vision' while going from displacement mode, I'm just so so so annoyed that he came within a couple of seconds of wiping out some canoes, and isn't there a thing somewhere about keeping a good lookout.
anyway, I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, and he has been around boats for years, so I'll stop there
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Old 25 September 2011, 13:19   #7
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"Why font you hive him a call." Local dialect?
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Old 25 September 2011, 13:26   #8
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Originally Posted by eilean mor
hi, yep, I try to give him the benefit, and I've taught on boats that they lost 'immediate vision' while going from displacement mode, I'm just so so so annoyed that he came within a couple of seconds of wiping out some canoes, and isn't there a thing somewhere about keeping a good lookout.
anyway, I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, and he has been around boats for years, so I'll stop there
Chris I agree with you I would be bloody annoyed as well to put it bluntly. I am so glad no one was injured and put of from enjoying the water. B
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Old 25 September 2011, 13:46   #9
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Eilan mor,

I understand your concern. However if the canoes had the time and presence of mind to start taking pictures then it really wasn't that close, or the canoes were intentionally seeing how close he would go, which isn't that smart.

However, i'be helmed an 11m Redbay, albeit not that one, and I don't recall a problem with forward via when getting on the plane.
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Old 25 September 2011, 14:02   #10
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Eilan mor,

I understand your concern. However if the canoes had the time and presence of mind to start taking pictures then it really wasn't that close, or the canoes were intentionally seeing how close he would go, which isn't that smart.

However, i'be helmed an 11m Redbay, albeit not that one, and I don't recall a problem with forward via when getting on the plane.
Not sure I buy that, Polwart. At displacement speed (say, 5 knots?) it would only take the fast ferry a minute or so to cover that distance. As you say, forward vision from a 11m Redbay at that speed is pretty good and if the helm was keeping a good lookout I can't really see much excuse for him getting within even 20 metres, let alone a couple. I think most people on this forum would recognise the vulnerability of canoeists and would keep well clear of them.

Col Regs apply, as far as I remember to "all vessels upon the high seas", and (Rule 2, I think) say that due regard has to be given to the limitations of any vessels involved.

This guy does have a bit of a reputation and although I'm not suggesting he was hunting canoeists, he does seem to have failed to be a courteous water-user, and not made much of an effort to take avoiding action. I don't see any excuse for that sort of behaviour, and it's driving like that gets all of us powerboaters a bad name
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Old 25 September 2011, 14:57   #11
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Eilan mor,

I understand your concern. However if the canoes had the time and presence of mind to start taking pictures then it really wasn't that close, or the canoes were intentionally seeing how close he would go, which isn't that smart.


The commercial boat driver has legal responsibilities over an above moral ones. The Canoists were the stand on vessel and needed to move if the other vessel wasn't following IRPCS and if the driver couldn't see were he was going then the boat ain't fit for purpose, which in the case of a ferry is the safe transportation of goods and people,.

No excuses bad Boatmanship
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Old 25 September 2011, 15:29   #12
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Ian,

Sorry - I wasn't defending him. I know of his reputation, and whilst I've never had a close call with him, the contrast to the friendliness of the orange (Venture West?) redbay who plies the same waters is apparent! The point I was trying to make was I can't see how his vision would be obscured enough by the bow rise (as others had generously suggested). I've no idea if he was "hunting" for canoeists or perhaps has an autopilot and a lazy attitude to keeping a lookout BUT if I was in any vessel, but especially a canoe, and thought there was a possibility that the fast approaching give-way vessel hadn't seen me or wasn't planning to give way then I'd be getting out the way pronto not taking pics.

Quote:
and only at the last moment, literally seconds from them, and when one of the canoeists takes a camera out to take a photo of the incident does the rib alter course? and then pass within a couple of metres of the canoes
that suggests if he hadn't taken avoiding action (albeit late) then the MAIB would have had some great evidence for their investigation... ...which would probably have highlighted the Col Reg which I paraphrase as "if the other guy doesn't give way then get out the way yourself".

However, I completely accept that if you've got close enough to upset other water users then you got too close and if you seem to be doing it regularly then you are either oblivious to other water users needs or a tit.

Given that he has that known reputation then I'd take the view that assuming early that he won't be giving you a wide berth and doing your best to get clear is actually the decision which lets you not only go home safe but also, probably a lot less wound up. Its like avoiding ejits in jetskis, they really are not worth getting hot under the collar about (and certainly not on here if he won't even see it).

If the OP wants to he could send the report to CHIRP (https://www.chirp.co.uk/reporting-report.asp) who will I believe raise it with the vessel managers if they believe there are lessons to be learned.
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Old 25 September 2011, 16:04   #13
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Ian,

Sorry - I wasn't defending him.
Never thought for one moment you were, Neil. Sorry if I gave that impression
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Old 25 September 2011, 16:28   #14
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I suspect that he has no issues with canoes - he treats supertankers the same way
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Old 26 September 2011, 04:13   #15
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If I was the canoeist and he had come that close to me I think I would have trouble from stopping myself from making him wear my paddle

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