Electric ribs in 2040?

Red Fox · 26 July 2017, 23:01

Petrol and Diesel off the roads by 2040. Will our outboards be next or should we just hope they don't notice us?

Limecc · 26 July 2017, 23:10

What a hypocritical load of PR bunkum.
They should do something about these huge ships that have diesel engines the size of houses that are subject to virtually no emission controls. Tackle the big offenders first. After that take a look at forcing some electric juggernauts on the hauliers.

simonl · 27 July 2017, 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limecc

What a hypocritical load of PR bunkum.
They should do something about these huge ships that have diesel engines the size of houses that are subject to virtually no emission controls. Tackle the big offenders first. After that take a look at forcing some electric juggernauts on the hauliers.

err, you mean the world's most efficient engines? You want to tackle them first?

Limecc · 27 July 2017, 06:51

I doubt few appreciate the economic misery and social impact this will bring. It couldn't be forced in America where greater distances are involved and they love their gas guzzlers anyway.
There's nothing green about the manufacture or disposal of a Toyota Prius.
No problem. There's always the answer to build more HS2's and HS3's. But these trains consume 1 Megawatt at idle in the station and 7.5 Megawatts at full pelt. Still have diesel locos on branch lines. Green policy just shifts the point where the gases are produced. We haven't even got started discussing the planned expansion of airports and air travel. Should be encouraging less surely?

ShinyShoe · 27 July 2017, 06:59

Well presumably there isn't a major air pollution issue causing lots of unnecessary deaths at sea. At some point the green lobby will point out that my emissions go into the sea and will be in the Prime Minister's Cod 'n' Chips during when they have their election campaign photo taken pretending they eat "Real People Food"... ...but...

I suspect the issue will be the cost of fuel may increase as Fuel becomes less of a requirement elsewhere. If you can't buy roadside Fuel in 2055 - it will be harder to control marina costs. The casual user will get fleeced.

Then there will be less engineers who understand engines. It will become very specialist and you'll be paying £600 per day plus travel/accommodation to get an engineer to come out to change a spark plug because all the local modern engineers will be saying "Oh - its not an electric motor I can't fix it" (Of course they also won't fix them they will just replace the motors!).

Of course in 2055 quite a lot of us will be the same age as those who tinker in classic cars and steam these days, we will be the eccentric people who wont let go of the ancient inefficient technology. Who like to stand round sucking air in oily boiler-suits remembering the good old says in 2010 when you could still run your engine on some mystical fuel just known as "Red"...

While the next generation 3D prints a replacement part for their electric boat engine, we will wait for 3 weeks for a shrivelled postal service to ship us the last remaining oil filter found on a dusty shelf at the back of an abandoned "halfords" store. We will tell the 3D generation about how you used to be able to go to this huge shopping facility (we will need to explain what that is - since they will think its a computer) and actually touch the filter before paying with an ancient form of money called pounds and pence. We will take out an old 1p coin to show the now fascinated crowd...

How I can't wait for 2055 to tell the next generation how great it was back in 2010...

Limecc · 27 July 2017, 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

Then there will be less engineers who understand engines. It will become very specialist and you'll be paying £600 per day plus travel/accommodation to get an engineer to come out to change a spark plug because all the local modern engineers will be saying "Oh - its not an electric motor I can't fix it" (Of course they also won't fix them they will just replace the motors!).

I think the opposite. There will be more individuals and back street garages doing DIY keeping their old 'land rovers' running. Then comes the next round legislation to force them out or simply tax them out of reach.

willk · 27 July 2017, 07:45

2040...

23 years, guys. Whole lotta us dudes won't be effected - other than maybe better air coming in the window in the nursing home if we are lucky!

More seriously, the "ban" does not include petrol hybrid engines, so no inherent reason for Internal Combustion Engines and mechanics to vanish. That said, I suspect that better battery and renewable energy technology will do away with most ICEs long before 2040. Electric Propulsion is just getting out of the cradle - it's at that point where they stopped walking in front of ICEs waving a red flag. Watch them run and run....

simonl · 27 July 2017, 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Fox

Petrol and Diesel off the roads by 2040. Will our outboards be next or should we just hope they don't notice us?

For those who want to run at WOT for a protracted time, an electric outboard is a bit of a nightmare scenario. For many of though, if the energy density of batteries improves significantly to a point where it challenges petrol, it'll be great imho. Many of us only use full HP during acceleration so the hybrid model works well there, except there's no recovery on deceleration.

Bring it on - set the industry some challenges. We won't find ourselves in a position we have no viable means of propulsion. There won't be enough hippies to force that upon us.

Last Tango · 27 July 2017, 08:05

Are you all too young to remember BetaMax tapes...........because that's where electric cars are going.

Hydrogen......the way forward...

simonl · 27 July 2017, 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Tango

Are you all too young to remember BetaMax tapes...........because that's where electric cars are going.

Hydrogen......the way forward...

Until some video emerges of a family burning to death in a hydrogen fire.
I put my money on Saint Elon and his Gigaplans. I agree that it's a 2 horse race though, except the one at the back has 3 legs and is relying on fart power.

And had to stop because someone in the crowd was smoking.

rik_elliott · 27 July 2017, 08:13

Meh,
I have an electric car (nissan leaf). Its really good for city use, and fine for shorter motorway hops too. I'm sure with 20 odd years of battery technology advancement, they'll be completely viable by the time this legislation comes around.

It'll be annoying to not be able to nip to shell for cheaper petrol for my RIB though - I don't see a hull full of lithium metal based batteries being a particularly good idea! Maybe theyll introduce ethanol instead of petrol for uses that cant use electric?

Maximus · 27 July 2017, 09:30

With GB as a whole contributing around 2% of all Co2 produced World wide...with China Not having to even PEAK its emissions in till 2030 under the Climate agreement (the main reason The U.S. Thinks it's disadvantaged by the Paris accord)... what WE do has precious little impact!
While on the subject of Co2 it's very seldom mentioned that the Building industry is a major contributor...To manufacture every Tonne of cement the process creates 1 Tonne of Co2!!...can you imagine what a Tonne of Co2 looks like....I can't

The Particulate debate is somewhat different.. and mainly concerns Diesel emissions which do and will continue to improve ...
Petrol engines (most liesure outboards) are pretty low polluting in this respect...and have made great advances in recent years,getting both cleaner running and more efficient...something that continues and should be (increasingly) continued to be invested in!..

The HGV industry is the mainstay of any modern economy,and I can't imagine the Electric Power and Generating capacity needed to (continuously) charge the worlds Diesel HGV/Lorry/Agricultural/Delivery Van/Construction/Military/ Business/ fleets....let alone funding and Building the infrastructure and equipment needed.
IMO We should be investing a lot more in clean tehnoloy for sure.. With the focus for the mid term on enhancing present technology!..economic opportunity beckons for the next BiG thing..but to put an arbitrary date WELL into the future in a quickly changing and uncertain world ....it will be a gradual incremental process to suggest anything else ...is IMO just Moonshine!..
Now THAT may a good Power source!

Last Tango · 27 July 2017, 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by simonl

Until some video emerges of a family burning to death in a hydrogen fire.

And.........Crashed Tesla explodes into a massive fireball

Siochair · 27 July 2017, 11:56

Now that we are able to make fuel from the left-overs from whisky distillation Scottish Distillery First to Produce Fuel from Whisky Residues | Celtic Renewables we should all do out part to make the planet a greener place and drink more of the good stuff. I am sure if we drink enough then cares over petrol will soon evaporate...

Maximus · 27 July 2017, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siochair

Now that we are able to make fuel from the left-overs from whisky distillation Scottish Distillery First to Produce Fuel from Whisky Residues | Celtic Renewables we should all do out part to make the planet a greener place and drink more of the good stuff. I am sure if we drink enough then cares over petrol will soon evaporate...

The Germans made Fuel and Oil from their Coal reserves during the War ie..1940's.!! .
.seems that technology was sidelined for some reason

willk · 27 July 2017, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximus

With GB as a whole contributing around 2% of all Co2 produced World wide...... what WE do has precious little impact!

I prefer to think of green issues as either Global or Personal problems. The environment doesn't really care where you draw your political lines of responsibility. I'm sure no-one would want their nation to be perceived as hanging around the back of the play shelter smoking when the clever boys are having fun with new technology...

office888 · 27 July 2017, 15:25

Smaller diesel electric yachts will come first, and probably some small electric tenders (sub-60hp).

The weight / size / hp / energy requirements of a 150hp to 250hp outboard are quite difficult to supply in an electric motor as of 2017.

If outboards start needing smog pumps, catalytic converters, and EGR systems, then you'll probably start seeing more electric innovation as gas engine costs + weights increase in order to comply.

Maximus · 27 July 2017, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

I prefer to think of green issues as either Global or Personal problems. The environment doesn't really care where you draw your political lines of responsibility. I'm sure no-one would want their nation to be perceived as hanging around the back of the play shelter smoking when the clever boys are having fun with new technology...

I partly agree with with your sentiment Wilk ...the trouble comes when Zealots of whatever "colour" who use "worthy causes" to gain,maintain, and increase control over Public opinion for the advancement of thier own agenda...under the the ruse of self flagellating legislation that in fact has little or NO effect on tackling the real problem...
The esteemed David Attenboroghs documentary about how many people the Earth can sustain is a good starter

willk · 27 July 2017, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximus

The esteemed David Attenboroghs documentary about how many people the Earth can sustain is a good starter

Indeed! I have long maintained that there are entirely far too many people.

I have a List....

Poly · 27 July 2017, 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximus

With GB as a whole contributing around 2% of all Co2 produced World wide...with China Not having to even PEAK its emissions in till 2030 under the Climate agreement (the main reason The U.S. Thinks it's disadvantaged by the Paris accord)... what WE do has precious little impact!
While on the subject of Co2 it's very seldom mentioned that the Building industry is a major contributor...To manufacture every Tonne of cement the process creates 1 Tonne of Co2!!...can you imagine what a Tonne of Co2 looks like....I can't

its about the same amount as you will burn towing your boat to oban for a weekend and back!

Quote:

The Particulate debate is somewhat different.. and mainly concerns Diesel emissions which do and will continue to improve ...

I thought I was at risk of having to dust off the admin yellow cards and remind people about the no politics rules. However it seems I can just point out the bad science instead! These moves are actually driven by a need to reduce NOx emissions not CO2 or particulates.

Quote:

Petrol engines (most liesure outboards) are pretty low polluting in this respect...and have made great advances in recent years,getting both cleaner running and more efficient...something that continues and should be (increasingly) continued to be invested in!..

Well blowing the exhaust through the sea certainly should stop quite a lot of it ending up in the atmosphere!

Quote:

The HGV industry is the mainstay of any modern economy,and I can't imagine the Electric Power and Generating capacity needed to (continuously) charge the worlds Diesel HGV/Lorry/Agricultural/Delivery Van/Construction/Military/ Business/ fleets....let alone funding and Building the infrastructure and equipment needed.

You must be the spokesperson for the road haulage association! Infrastructure should be easier for those fleets. If it's economical they will switch overnight.