Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 08 November 2013, 10:58   #1
Member
 
Country: Ireland
Town: Castlebar
Boat name: Clewless
Make: Valiant DR 490
Length: 4m +
Engine: 60 hp ETEC
MMSI: Awaitng one
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,338
RIBase
Deck Matrix

I want to put in a deck matrix to allow for removal jockey seat, bench seat bottle rack etc. I plan on using 4 or 5mm thick Stainless steel plate. Two plates each 100mm wide by 800mm long which will be joined togeter with three 50 mm Stainless stringers. This unit to have 7 blind M 8 nuts on each plate i.e. 14 blind nuts in total. The unit to be sikaflexed and screwed down at 100mm C/C. I then intend to cover the unit with 4-6 layers of 300mm CSM and then flow coat the deck. This arrangement will give me 8 bolts for a single jockey (4 each side) or 12 bolts for a Double jockey and 6 bolts for a bench seat. I intend to use bolts like this A2 Stainless Metric Studding Connector Nuts (DIN 6334) on the under side of the plate with the ends blanked off.

A plan view of the deck matrix shown below





Your thoughs on this arrangement please. The last thing I want is a jockey seat to come away from the deck. I think that this may have been the failure mechasim that caused the failure of the jockey seat on MustRibs gemini in the RI 2013 event earlier. If I am mistaken Must rib then I am sorry in advance

TSM
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Deck Matrix.jpg
Views:	267
Size:	207.3 KB
ID:	87229  
__________________

__________________
two stroke mick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 November 2013, 04:12   #2
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: Tohatsu 30HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,182
Will it ever be used with just an open deck? it sounds like a trip hazard to me. Is the deck ply, 'solid' grp, or got a core?
__________________
Poly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 November 2013, 06:19   #3
Member
 
Country: Ireland
Town: Castlebar
Boat name: Clewless
Make: Valiant DR 490
Length: 4m +
Engine: 60 hp ETEC
MMSI: Awaitng one
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,338
RIBase
deck is grp on plywood under which there is some kind of foam. The deck would be used as an open space for diving
__________________
two stroke mick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 November 2013, 17:34   #4
RIBnet supporter
 
MustRib's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Newcastle
Boat name: Merlin
Make: RB4 Gemini 550
Length: 4m +
Engine: Tohatsu 90C
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,071
Your thoughs on this arrangement please. The last thing I want is a jockey seat to come away from the deck. I think that this may have been the failure mechasim that caused the failure of the jockey seat on MustRibs gemini in the RI 2013 event earlier. If I am mistaken Must rib then I am sorry in advance

TSM



TSM... nothing to apologise for.
Events all happened in a split second, but the boat was extremely on its beam, after the crest. I am pretty certain the seat parted company with the deck as a result of some big lardy bloke being sent sideways with a violent snapping motion as opposed to seat detachment being the reason I went sideways. The seat didnt have enough sideways motion to be ejected from the boat, and if I recall, the damage to the deck was more in line with a levering motion. Anyway, I wouldn't skimp on the pate as regards the lay up. I think my seat was subjected to an extreme force, and as Poly pointed out, seats detaching from the floor in the circumstances is not unusual.
btw I cap the open ununsed big heads in the floor with a Hex dome head bolt, and these all but disappear into the Treadmaster, hardly standing proud of it at all.
__________________
MustRib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 November 2013, 18:17   #5
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: Tohatsu 30HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustRib View Post
I think my seat was subjected to an extreme force, and as Poly pointed out, seats detaching from the floor in the circumstances is not unusual.
I might well have said its not unheard of - it doesn't mean its right (of course even if the seat stays put it doesn't ensure that the helmsman/crew do too).

There have been a few threads on here in the past with people looking to put removable fixings in. Don't recall anyone going as complex as you are proposing. If the deck design supported it I'd have though a small flush hatch to put bolts in from underneath was the 'best'.

Have a look at: http://www.rib.net/forum/f8/removabl...tml#post564942
http://www.rib.net/forum/f8/name-nee...ngs-31839.html
http://www.rib.net/forum/f8/fitting-...tml#post195885
http://www.rib.net/forum/f8/diy-jock...html#post19814
__________________
Poly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2013, 04:11   #6
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Southampton
Boat name: SMH Rib / War Shot
Make: Ribtec / Scorpion
Length: 4m +
Engine: 100hp Yam/150hp opt
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,988
RIBase
My old 4m Searider Deluxe had blind fastenings embedded in the floor for securing the seats to.
There were also some blanked off ones, presumably for fitting a console if the boat were specd as a rescue version.

Poly, I'm not sure having hatches in the deck to allow through bolting will be practical.
__________________
Searider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2013, 05:29   #7
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Searider View Post
Poly, I'm not sure having hatches in the deck to allow through bolting will be practical.
4" inspection hatch like this: DINGHY/YACHT Inspection hatch - WHITE | eBay

In the middle of the seat/console (provided you can get to the middle of the seat/console) - would have no traffic so very little abuse) and should let you get in to put the nuts and big washers on...

But does depend what the structure under the deck is like.

They are pretty robust (there are some that are a bit more flexible) but the one I linked to is "solid". They keep water out well on sailing dinghies so would be happy with the seal on a SR4 deck.
__________________
ShinyShoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2013, 05:46   #8
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: Tohatsu 30HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,182
I was actually thinking something that was genuinely flush and in steel - but I've just looked at the price

There is no benefit to a slightly raised hatch - it would need to be recessed to be flush; I'm thinking tripping, stubbed toes, comfortable under bare foot - when the seat / bottle rack is not fitted.

Quote:
a SR4 deck
its for a valiant.
__________________
Poly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2013, 06:00   #9
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poly View Post
There is no benefit to a slightly raised hatch - it would need to be recessed to be flush; I'm thinking tripping, stubbed toes, comfortable under bare foot - when the seat / bottle rack is not fitted.
Hadn't really understood. (shut it!) I took it the desire was just to have some nuts on the underside, not to be changing boat config.

Quote:
its for a valiant.
Whatever
__________________
ShinyShoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 November 2013, 15:39   #10
Member
 
Country: Ireland
Town: Castlebar
Boat name: Clewless
Make: Valiant DR 490
Length: 4m +
Engine: 60 hp ETEC
MMSI: Awaitng one
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,338
RIBase
Placed the order for the ss deck matrix. cost circa 450 euro. lets see if the experiment works.
__________________
two stroke mick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 January 2014, 09:43   #11
Member
 
Country: Ireland
Town: Castlebar
Boat name: Clewless
Make: Valiant DR 490
Length: 4m +
Engine: 60 hp ETEC
MMSI: Awaitng one
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,338
RIBase
I have taken deliver of my deck matrix

I have as of today taken delivery of my deck matrix. Now it is time to start how to drill a hole thread. The plan is to drill out deck to recess the nuts, Screw and sika flex to the deck. The glass the unit in place and then flow coat the deck.
TSM
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Photo0019.jpg
Views:	147
Size:	89.9 KB
ID:	89499   Click image for larger version

Name:	Photo0020.jpg
Views:	130
Size:	87.3 KB
ID:	89500   Click image for larger version

Name:	Photo0021.jpg
Views:	149
Size:	94.7 KB
ID:	89501  
__________________
two stroke mick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 January 2014, 04:28   #12
Member
 
Country: Ireland
Town: Castlebar
Boat name: Clewless
Make: Valiant DR 490
Length: 4m +
Engine: 60 hp ETEC
MMSI: Awaitng one
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,338
RIBase
Drilled out the deck to accept the matrix

Drilled out the deck to accept the deck matrix this weekend. No going back now. This is turning out to be a bigger job than I though
TSM
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Photo0022.jpg
Views:	132
Size:	112.7 KB
ID:	89732   Click image for larger version

Name:	Photo0023.jpg
Views:	129
Size:	115.2 KB
ID:	89733   Click image for larger version

Name:	Photo0024.jpg
Views:	138
Size:	114.6 KB
ID:	89734  
__________________
two stroke mick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 February 2014, 10:07   #13
Member
 
Country: Ireland
Town: Castlebar
Boat name: Clewless
Make: Valiant DR 490
Length: 4m +
Engine: 60 hp ETEC
MMSI: Awaitng one
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,338
RIBase
Sanded the deck, cleased with thinners used a tuble of sikaflex 291 i in the cold. Then screwed the deck matrix into place. Next job to glass over the stainless unit and flow coat the deck. Belt and braces job.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Photo0028.jpg
Views:	131
Size:	110.1 KB
ID:	90324   Click image for larger version

Name:	Photo0030.jpg
Views:	126
Size:	117.8 KB
ID:	90325  
__________________
two stroke mick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 February 2014, 13:21   #14
Member
 
Festinghouse's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Chorley / Holyhead
Boat name: Northwind Challenger
Make: Tornado
Length: 6m +
Engine: Mariner 115 efi CT
MMSI: 235080598
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,411
RIBase
Send a message via Skype™ to Festinghouse
looking good, though youre giving me ideas i could well do without!
__________________
"Life may often suck, but the alternative is unacceptable"
MMSI Sticker
Festinghouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 February 2014, 16:40   #15
Member
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,859
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by two stroke mick View Post
Sanded the deck, cleased with thinners used a tuble of sikaflex 291 i in the cold. Then screwed the deck matrix into place. Next job to glass over the stainless unit and flow coat the deck. Belt and braces job.
How are you going to protect the threaded holes from the GRP/flowcoat?
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 February 2014, 04:25   #16
Member
 
Country: Ireland
Town: Castlebar
Boat name: Clewless
Make: Valiant DR 490
Length: 4m +
Engine: 60 hp ETEC
MMSI: Awaitng one
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,338
RIBase
Pikey

I plan to use 8mm treaded bar. cut into 50mm lenghts. Screw in the treathed bar and glass around the treathed bar. When finished use visegrip to get purchase on the bar and tread the bar out. I dont know if it will work. I will tell you in a few weeks time.

TSM
__________________
two stroke mick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 February 2014, 05:59   #17
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Length: under 3m
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by two stroke mick View Post
Pikey

I plan to use 8mm treaded bar. cut into 50mm lenghts. Screw in the treathed bar and glass around the treathed bar. When finished use visegrip to get purchase on the bar and tread the bar out. I dont know if it will work. I will tell you in a few weeks time.

TSM
Why not use a long bolt instead of threaded bar? Surely something wih a head on it would give you better purchase to extract it using a socket set or driver , when you have finished glassing.
__________________
tumnus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 February 2014, 07:32   #18
RIBnet supporter
 
Chris Caton's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Wirral & Caernarfon
Boat name: That's Enuff
Make: Revenger & Avon SR4
Length: 7m +
Engine: Honda 150HP & 50HP
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,294
socket head cap screw will have a relatively small head, but you can use a allen key to make removal easy afterwards
__________________
Chris Caton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 February 2014, 11:45   #19
Member
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,859
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Caton View Post
socket head cap screw will have a relatively small head, but you can use a allen key to make removal easy afterwards
+1, put some Copperslip on the threads too, if one picks up you're shagged. I'm guessing that the GRP will need a bit of fettling around the holes when you unscrew whatever you use to protect the holes.
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 February 2014, 15:27   #20
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: Tohatsu 30HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikey Dave View Post
+1, put some Copperslip on the threads too, if one picks up you're shagged. I'm guessing that the GRP will need a bit of fettling around the holes when you unscrew whatever you use to protect the holes.
would vaseline or silicone grease be better than copper-slip? - in that cleaning copper-slip off the internal threads will be a PITA but you don't want to leave a smear on there to accelerate dissimilar metal corrosion when the final assembly is done?
__________________
Poly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.