Compass Recomendations Please - Page 2

alystra · 18 November 2009, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zubenelgenubi

Interesting, sounds complicated.

Nah! Reads worse than it is. Another excuse to go tearing about all over the ocean on a nice day.

Getting rid of Deviation as much as possible IS important though. After all, your brand new chart plotter could fail at the same time that your crew stands on the old GPS which you've kept as a backup, and the pocket GPS that you use when climbing mountains just runs out of battery and suddenly the fog comes down so thick you can't see a hand in front of you - and then where would you be if you hadn't sorted your Deviation? Lost, that's where you'd be.

Follow the instructions posted earlier and you can be very, very smug - and NOT lost.

Zubenelgenubi · 19 November 2009, 10:27

How accurate is the correction given that you are only correcting coefficient permanant B & coefficient C?

alystra · 19 November 2009, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zubenelgenubi

How accurate is the correction given that you are only correcting coefficient permanant B & coefficient C?

Accurate enough.

No room for soft iron balls and Flinders bar and the thingy underneath for heeling error if you fancy some sailing. No degaussing coils, no rivets to bang, no steel to weld.

Nah! It'll do me as it is.

Zubenelgenubi · 19 November 2009, 11:17

Tks,

Ill give it a go. my compass is low on directive force, it moves about when someone walks past it even!

willk · 19 November 2009, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by alystra

No room for soft iron balls

Indeed. In any case, the Ribnet general spec. is Steel. Brass for the colder months.

alystra · 19 November 2009, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zubenelgenubi

Tks,

Ill give it a go. my compass is low on directive force, it moves about when someone walks past it even!

Mmmm! Perhaps your friends have magnetic personalities. Could try giving them some iron balls.

Best of luck with the compass.

GJ0KYZ · 19 November 2009, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puffin

Thanks for the info. Is that an Offshore 90, 105 or 135?

Puffin

I think it's a 105. I had a look on the boat's invoice tonight and it appears I wasn't charged for it!

Richard B · 19 November 2009, 21:02

The Plastimo Offshore 105 is ideal for RIBs. We have one and it works extremely well. They're a bit pricey and you need space because they're quite large. If I remember correctly, they have a plate in the base to reduce the affect of electrical items in the console.

I've navigated from Needles to Alderney and back using just the compass and the navigation was spot on!

wavelength · 22 November 2009, 16:26

we have the compass on the consol next to gps sounder rev counter etc and have no problems with it, and we use it on courses to show the leading lights agree with the chart and to run at least 1 leg of a trip. Wave things about near the compass before fitting them both turned on and off to guage any effect, and check the effect of your steering as the wheel is turned. Our compasses have always been ok unadjusted, we got into more of a problem adjusting them than just leaving it as bought.
The level 2 course syllabus says "can use steering compass" and so we teach it here on L2 courses.
How come then I can go to run instructor courses and find candidates with L2 certs who have never been shown how to steer to a compass, let alone have the capability of teaching it??

alystra · 23 November 2009, 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavelength

we have the compass on the consol next to gps sounder rev counter etc and have no problems with it, and we use it on courses to show the leading lights agree with the chart and to run at least 1 leg of a trip. Wave things about near the compass before fitting them both turned on and off to guage any effect, and check the effect of your steering as the wheel is turned. Our compasses have always been ok unadjusted, we got into more of a problem adjusting them than just leaving it as bought.
The level 2 course syllabus says "can use steering compass" and so we teach it here on L2 courses.
How come then I can go to run instructor courses and find candidates with L2 certs who have never been shown how to steer to a compass, let alone have the capability of teaching it??

It's a mystery, Dave. I've had several Coastal Skipper candidates who couldn't sail my boat because it didn't have electronic thingies to tell you which way the wind was blowing. They had to rely on a burgee, bits of cotton on the stays and the wind in their face. How did they get through Comp Crew, let alone Day skipper?? I used to tell them, if other stuff was ok, that I'd sign them off if they went on a two day dinghy sailing course to learn how to sail.

Oh! Yes. Back to compasses. Your experience similar to mine. I suspect modern electronics use so little power that the magnetic fields they create are very weak indeed. Loudspeakers are probably another matter.

wavelength · 23 November 2009, 11:00

I keep the radio away from the compass but modern mike's seem to be ok when they have a carbon pellet thingie in there.
As for inability to do the simple things like steer to a compass, anchor the boat or explain power trim I find it infuriating that folk can leave a course with a certificate but clueless. Not their fault, the instructor or perhaps whoever passed the instructor.

Richard B · 23 November 2009, 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavelength

I find it infuriating that folk can leave a course with a certificate but clueless. Not their fault, the instructor or perhaps whoever passed the instructor.

I've always thought that this is inevitable as the PB2 (and the old advanced course) are/were not assessed.

I've spoken with lots of people who admitted that they paid no attention to the navigation instruction becaus they intend to use electronics only when back on their own boat.

BruceB · 23 November 2009, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard B

I've always thought that this is inevitable as the PB2 (and the old advanced course) are/were not assessed.

I've spoken with lots of people who admitted that they paid no attention to the navigation instruction becaus they intend to use electronics only when back on their own boat.

They are both "assessed", whether they are taught the full syllabus is another matter. PB2 is really only basic instruction, nobody can become an expert in a weekend.
It a bit like a PADI open water diving course, its basic principles that afterwards you go and gain experience using. You cannot do it and then dive the Lusitania at 90m+ next day.
PB2 is much the same idea.
However it should be impossible to achieve Advanced PB without being able to use a compass considering you are required to carry out a night navigation course using one!

Richard B · 23 November 2009, 16:21

Hmmmm... and in the real world, it's virtually impossible to fail PB2, unless you have a serious issue (I think one instructor told me that the only candidate he's passed "with a restriction/endorsement" was a partially sighted candidate who needed an assistant to help at all times.)

So I'm sorry but I can't accept that PB2 is assessed - if you do the course, you will pass! To say that it is assessed is just paying lip service to the RYA.

If an RYA Instructor gets strict and starts failing candidates, are they going to recommend him/her to their friends and colleagues? Are they going to come back for another course? I don't think so!

And the old Advanced Powerboat certificate was no different either. I know of candidates who have made fundamental navigational mistakes on the the night exercise and have still passed. The same people, unsurprisingly, are those who admitted that they paid no attention to the navigation instruction.

SeaSkills · 23 November 2009, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard B

If an RYA Instructor gets strict and starts failing candidates, are they going to recommend him/her to their friends and colleagues? Are they going to come back for another course? I don't think so!

Well, I've failed (or more properly "deferred") candidates at Level 2, Safety Boat, and Advanced (and failed candidates on Advanced Exams) and pretty much all of my work comes from personal recommendations.

What happens to those who don't reach the standard? I don't always know. Some have come back, some have gone elsewhere. Frankly, I'd prefer it if they came back - but I'm not going to lower my standards if they don't. I'm not going to pretend that every RYA centre does the same ... but I'd be willing to bet that those who regularly post on here operate the same way.

Of those who've been deferred by us, admittedly very few have been at Level 2, and I can't think of a single person who hasn't completed everything satisfactorily, even if it takes a little extra time. The Level 2 course isn't too difficult. It's an entry level course and a reasonably competent person who has been adequately taught should be expected to come away with a certificate. If they don't reach the competent standard during the time we've allowed for the course, we sign off those parts of the course that they have done properly in their log books and arrange for them to come back and complete the rest later. We shouldn't be surprised if the failure rate is low.

This should not be used as an excuse for poor teaching though, and I agree with all the comments already made about those people who get the certificate without achieving the required standard

Puffin · 14 March 2010, 14:21

I am still undecided on compasses despite all the advice posted here. It is however fast approaching the time I will have to make a decision to be ready for the summer. A fluxgate compass does sound a good idea. Has anyone got any experience of the tacktick compasses? They run off solar power so are independant of the boats electronic systems which seems like a good idea as one of the main reasons for having a compass is in case of electronic failure taking down the chart plotter.

Am I also correct in thinking you don't have the same problems with deviation as a magnetic compass?

http://www.marine-super-store.com/po...28++++++++++++

Be interested to hear peoples thoughts before I shell out over £200.

alystra · 15 March 2010, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puffin

............
Am I also correct in thinking you don't have the same problems with deviation as a magnetic compass?

Fluxgate compasses are electronic magnetic compasses, so suffer deviation in exactly the same way as ordinary magnetic compasses. However, they are able to compensate for the deviation automatically. Rather than you having to make a deviation card up, you just need to (with the ones I have used) steer in a circle clockwise and then anticlockwise and the compass calculates the deviation and compensates itself. As a user, you don't have to apply deviation yourself, so you're correct.

9D280 · 15 March 2010, 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by alystra

Getting rid of Deviation as much as possible IS important though. After all, your brand new chart plotter could fail at the same time that your crew stands on the old GPS which you've kept as a backup, and the pocket GPS that you use when climbing mountains just runs out of battery and suddenly the fog comes down so thick you can't see a hand in front of you - and then where would you be if you hadn't sorted your Deviation? Lost, that's where you'd be.

And of course you have your pitot speedo calibrated so that you can do a speed - time distance calc........

I say that half jokingly, but as my engine has a pitot take- off at the front of the leg, for a couple of metres of hose and a cheap gauge, it's not a huge cost add- on. At risk of hyjacking the thread slightly, my "e-nav failure" risk assesement goes something like this:

Plotter fails
- Backup "toy" is a Garmin handleld (with "data out" patchable to the VHF for DSC emergencies) It;s normally fed from the onboard battery, but with set of charged AAs in to take care of the next level of failure-
- Electrical. Battery dies. Engine is a 2-stroke and has an E- start pull cord. Handheld under the seat. Garmin takes over, and is filled with a load of salient waypoints in case of the aforementioned fog.
- Next level of failure is total satellie death. Highly unlikely, but that's where the compass & a laminated chart comes in to play. (and my comments about the pitot speedo)

There are other engine failure resulting in no battery charging scenarios I've looked at, but as that's going well off topic I'll leave them for another thread.....