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Old 11 January 2008, 10:59   #1
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Coastguards sacked Health and safety

Just come across these 2 articles

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_ne...142083,00.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

It really makes my blood boil. These aren't idiots - they know the risks.

The 2nd article is really a farce

"Coastguard sacked for daring clifftop rescue of 13-year-old schoolgirl as boss says: 'We don't want dead heroes"

He felt the girl's life was in danger so he climbed down to her without ropes and held onto her until the helicopter arrived. Now he's been sacked!!!
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Old 11 January 2008, 12:47   #2
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Unbelievable! I did 6 years with Mountain Rescue, and I've been 30 or so years with the RNLI. If I chose to take a calculated risk in order to save someone else, that was just an expected part of the job, and my right to choose.

I don't know the background to this, but on the face of it it sounds completely outrageous.
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Old 11 January 2008, 12:55   #3
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Yes I am always dubious of the Daily Mail but there must be some truth in it. I also did a stint with Mountain/Cave rescue in the early nineties - loved every minute of it but I knew what the risks were - it was my own neck on the line after all..........
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Old 11 January 2008, 16:30   #4
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/c...bram=1&nbram=1

Just found this footage on the BBC website - what's really strange is the same girl was rescued from almost the same spot a year before - by the same bloke!!!
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Old 11 January 2008, 17:07   #5
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Yeah, saw that. Haven't been able to find out what the outcome of it all was though. I see there was a campaign to get the guy reinstated, anyone know if it was succesful?
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Old 11 January 2008, 19:10   #6
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Yes I am always dubious of the Daily Mail but there must be some truth in it.
when did they start that?
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Old 12 January 2008, 13:42   #7
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I have to say, that after helping to save someone life i really think they should have been quite proud........and kept any lessons to improve on in the MCA.
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Old 12 January 2008, 17:07   #8
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I hope Paul won't mind me copying his posting on another forum here, it was wriiten in response to the support he has received from other coastguards, etc...

Hello Everyone
I would like to thankyou all for your comments.As you know in the job we do be it cg rnli ambulance fire or police no job is the same this job was different as the MRU was stuck in a field on the other side of railway track there was 3 locks on both gates a field and a half away only 3 of us responded to pagers so we had called for back up which arrived after the job. 2 of us ran over the field to assess the job the Polce air support unit had a spot light on the girl which was great it was blowing a gale coming off the sea and she had been thre 45mins she was shaking and had mild hyperthermia when you see a young face looking up at you pleading for help i wasnt going to stand there and do nothing she was planning her own funeral in her head. If i couldnt have got to her then thats different i would have had to run back over the field for equipment but i think she would have fallen before we got back. the ledge she had stood on had collapsed so she was hanging by her arms on the grass so i had to get below her and make my own foot holds up behind her and pin her to the cliff face and we were stood there for another 30mins until Resce 128 came and winched her and the others up and took them staright to hospital.
The RAF lads from Leconfield & The police lads at tees valley airport did a good job too considering the wind it was a good bit of flying.
Since the Rescue i have had nothing but chew of certain members of the coastguard from AOM down the line and some trying to cover their backs by lying . I was trutheful i Broke a rule and admitted it i apologised i have been on many sad and bad jobs and to be treated like a criminal for rescuing someone.
In the 13 yrs ive been in the CG i have done alot of things to promote what we do saftey and generally putting the CG forward like organising fund raising event Pulling Tornado Aircraft at RAF leeming and many other things . I recieved the VOLUNTEER COASTGUARD OF THE YEAR IN 2006 Chief Executive Award for working at the boatshow in 2006 both of which i didnt know we did and for all ive done for the coastguard in the community. Some people dont like to do PR wok but i do but i do and some people have been in along time done nothing and got nothing but dont want anyone else to do anything.But like someone said were on the job you have to assess the situation. I was told once that one day i would work outside the Box and this was the time.
But thank you all for your support and comments Im not a HERO WE ARE ALL HEROS THAT DO EMERGENCY WORK AND ONE TIME YOU MIGHT HAVE TO WORK OUTSIDE THE BOX I HOPE YOU GET THE BACKING YOU NEED
Thanks again
Paul Waugh

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Old 13 January 2008, 09:44   #9
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I hope Paul won't mind me copying his posting on another forum here, it was wriiten in response to the support he has received from other coastguards, etc...

Hello Everyone
I would like to thankyou all for your comments....................

....................Since the Rescue i have had nothing but chew of certain members of the coastguard from AOM down the line and some trying to cover their backs by lying . I was trutheful i Broke a rule and admitted it i apologised i have been on many sad and bad jobs and to be treated like a criminal for rescuing someone.

Thanks again
Paul Waugh

SDG
It doesn't surprise me. During my time at the CG I felt that the upper levels of the organisation were peopled by a higher than average number of bullies. This especially after it turned into the MCA. Many of them were frustrated ships captains - or people with masters tickets anyway. Sometimes such people can turn into martinets. Perhaps they forget they're dealing with volunteers?

Had the girl fallen while Paul went back for kit, he'd have been criticised too. Had he struggled to the scene with some kit, it wouldn't have been enough, leading to more criticism.

So, only three team members turned up? This surely reflects on MCA management in that area. I've never heard of a Lifeboat having to hang around waiting for a full crew after the pagers have gone off. Usually far too many chaps turn up. The volunteer CG teams we dealt with were always keen and reliable, but then our Ops Room and Sector Offices were happy places and the teams responded.

MCA closed it.
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Old 13 January 2008, 11:31   #10
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At least the Chief Exec of NIAS seems to know what it's all about. Maybe the MCA management should take a leaf out of his book.


http://www.derryjournal.com/journal/...rom.3639951.jp
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Old 13 January 2008, 12:49   #11
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This incident reminds me of a youngster drowning in a fishing pool last year.
two of these so called special community police officers looked on while the youngster drowned. the excuse was that they werent trained to jump in and
rescue this poor child. TWATS.and thenyou get the opposite on this ocasion
This country is well and truly F----d. May be with all the ribnet members on here we should sign a petition to get this brave VOLUNTEER reinstated.But if
i were him id tell em to shove it where the sun dont shine
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Old 13 January 2008, 13:52   #12
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Perhaps comparing the two organisations' chief execs gives a clue ...

Chief Executive - Mr Liam McIvor (Ambulance service)

Quote:
Mr Liam McIvor was appointed Chief Executive of the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service in October 2004 having previously held the position of Director of Operations from May 2001.

Mr McIvor was previously the General Manager for Ambulatory Care at the Royal Group of Hospitals and has held various general management positions in the public and private sectors.

(From NIAS website)
For the MCA, Peter Cardy..

Quote:
He spent the first part of his career working in adult education in the east of England and the north of Scotland. For twenty years from 1987 he ran the UKs major charities concerned with motor neurone disease, multiple sclerosis and cancer.

Mr Cardy has written and lectured extensively on the management of these uniquely complicated bodies, with their devolved structures, large numbers of volunteers and small staff, and their multiple goals of service improvement, research and policy change. He has been a member of many national and international professional bodies and foundations. In 2001, he was honoured with the Charcot medal of which fewer than a dozen have been awarded, all others to senior physicians.
Now I'm sure he's a grand chap, but not much experience there of what his guys on the ground are likely to face...

But then he goes on to say :

Quote:
But I learnt very early on about the unique qualities of the people who work in this very special sector, and I feel both honoured and daunted by the challenge of living up to the proud traditions of professionalism, skill and integrity we have inherited.
So as one of those "proud traditions" is saving lives, I expect we can see those concerned reinstated forthwith
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Old 21 January 2008, 07:00   #13
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This incident reminds me of a youngster drowning in a fishing pool last year.
two of these so called special community police officers looked on while the youngster drowned. the excuse was that they werent trained to jump in and
rescue this poor child. TWATS.and thenyou get the opposite on this ocasion
This country is well and truly F----d. May be with all the ribnet members on here we should sign a petition to get this brave VOLUNTEER reinstated.But if
i were him id tell em to shove it where the sun dont shine
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...er/7007081.stm


Is this the incident where the PCSOs watched on as a child drowned? As always, the media story doesn't always reflect the full story.

It's not hard to feel sorry for the PCSOs. Imagine responding to an incident in which a child is reported drowning, you arrive on scene after the boy has slipped under the water, some fishermen standing by who've watched the incident cant identify where he is and somehow you end up being pilloried by the nation's media for standing there and watching the child drown.

Hope Paul is re-instated, but as always suspect there is more to the story than is reported.

Ed
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Old 21 January 2008, 07:18   #14
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It's not so much what the coppers did or didn't do - it's what their bosses said. Basically - as in the coastguard incident - the manegement are putting health and safety laws first. Police have been told that they are NOT to rescue someone drowning unless they have the right equipment.
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Old 21 January 2008, 10:24   #15
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It's not hard to feel sorry for the PCSOs. Imagine responding to an incident in which a child is reported drowning, you arrive on scene after the boy has slipped under the water, some fishermen standing by who've watched the incident cant identify where he is and somehow you end up being pilloried by the nation's media for standing there and watching the child drown.

Hope Paul is re-instated, but as always suspect there is more to the story than is reported.

Ed [/QUOTE]

True!
My understanding is that he resigned after being "told off" for not waiting. Could have taken the bollocking anf got on with things. I think he is being a bit of a drama queen over it!
Im sure he did great work and my hat goes off to him but come on.......
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Old 21 January 2008, 13:56   #16
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Ed [/QUOTE]

True!
My understanding is that he resigned after being "told off" for not waiting. Could have taken the bollocking anf got on with things. I think he is being a bit of a drama queen over it!
Im sure he did great work and my hat goes off to him but come on....... [/QUOTE]

Why should he take a bollocking? He's a VOLUNTEER. As far as we know, his actions didn't put anyone else in danger. In his opinion the casualty was about to fall. His actions saved her.

On the other hand, if he'd have fallen and been injured then I'm sure he or his bereaved relatives would have been very quick to say that MCA didn't do things properly and claim huge compensation. No doubt that's what the sector officer/manager (for I assume it would be he that did the bollocking - sorry - telling off) was most concerned about. After all, had all gone wrong, this volunteer could have embarrassed some Very Important People within MCA hierarchy. And that would never do.

Perhaps the 'telling off' could have been done in a less upsetting way?

On the other, other hand. Perhaps our rescuer was one who scoffs at the safety routines used by CG cliff rescue teams, and perhaps this wasn't the first time?? I doubt we'll ever know the full story.
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Old 22 January 2008, 06:12   #17
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As with all incidents,

the only people who know 100% of the whole full story will be the Coastguard and the volunteer.

As, sadly, with relation to the press, sometimes things can get blown out of proportion very quickly.
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Old 22 January 2008, 16:47   #18
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The coastguard was not sacked, he chose to resign.

Anyone living in the UK these days is surely aware of the overkill on health and safety. Indeed 'white collar H&S' is a massive growth industry, worth many hundreds of millions. It involves worthless individuals coming around ordering management to be overly safety concious (they end up "safety FRIGHTENED TO BL**DY DEATH"). This came about 'cos lots of workers were dying due to poor H&S.

I dont blame MCA management for being so safety conscious, nor should this volunteer. Yes, he was very brave and saved a life, but his managers need to be careful to balance praise with DONT DO IT AGAIN!

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Old 22 January 2008, 18:43   #19
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The coastguard was not sacked, he chose to resign.

I dont blame MCA management for being so safety conscious, nor should this volunteer. Yes, he was very brave and saved a life, but his managers need to be careful to balance praise with DONT DO IT AGAIN!

pvm
Agreed, but it seems to me there was precious little praise for this chap, only a wagging finger.

As I said earlier in the thread, I find it significant that there were only three people turned up to go on the shout. Ever heard of an all weather lifeboat having to wait because there weren't enough crew? Well, I haven't. I think there could be a management problem within the CG in that area.

I'd like to think that there wasn't, but you have to remember that a significant number of CG officers are retired/redundant Petty Officers from the RN. In their first career they could shout and bully to their hearts content. Try that with a volunteer and he'll tell you to f*** off. And this one did - apparently.
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Old 23 January 2008, 04:42   #20
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This came about 'cos lots of workers were dying due to poor H&S.
Really ?

Lots of people were dying due to idiocy - if, as a worker, I removed a guard from a piece of machinery then got dragged into it, I'm a moron.

If I over reach on a ladder propped up with a couple of bits of wood, then fall off, that's idiocy.

Today's problem isn't that working environments are dangerous, it's that nobody seems to take responsibility for their actions.
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