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Old 30 October 2010, 16:19   #1
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are local councils to greedy

just got home with the boat and jetski from our caravan in trearddeur bay, this year seems to have been the quietest on record, heard the usual story times, no money, but talk to the local traders,dive shop, and boat yard, and they say council charges, i pay 120.00 per boat, insurance twice, 400 quid.. storage twice...240.00..all payable in advance, all my choice, have done it for years and in school holidays can get out up to 5 times a week.
this year the council have hiked the slipway car park charge up to a fiver,maybe to pay for the 4 yes... four council wardens who patrol the slip, is this happening all around the country, can they make money, on a 7 day week, 28 week season, i would gladly pay 30 quid extra,on my launch charge to park in a busy car and trailer park, instead of 5 or 10 quid a day...
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Old 31 October 2010, 04:13   #2
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Originally Posted by rayfish2 View Post
just got home with the boat and jetski from our caravan in trearddeur bay, this year seems to have been the quietest on record, heard the usual story times, no money, but talk to the local traders,dive shop, and boat yard, and they say council charges, i pay 120.00 per boat, insurance twice, 400 quid.. storage twice...240.00..all payable in advance, all my choice, have done it for years and in school holidays can get out up to 5 times a week.
this year the council have hiked the slipway car park charge up to a fiver,maybe to pay for the 4 yes... four council wardens who patrol the slip, is this happening all around the country, can they make money, on a 7 day week, 28 week season, i would gladly pay 30 quid extra,on my launch charge to park in a busy car and trailer park, instead of 5 or 10 quid a day...
Local council slips in Aberdeenshire used to be around £15 per launch. Better with season ticket which was around £60-70, April to October. I can see an increase in the new financial year though as they've no cash.
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Old 01 November 2010, 16:14   #3
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just got home with the boat and jetski from our caravan in trearddeur bay, this year seems to have been the quietest on record, heard the usual story times, no money, but talk to the local traders,dive shop, and boat yard, and they say council charges, i pay 120.00 per boat, insurance twice, 400 quid.. Storage twice...240.00..all payable in advance, all my choice, have done it for years and in school holidays can get out up to 5 times a week.
This year the council have hiked the slipway car park charge up to a fiver,maybe to pay for the 4 yes... Four council wardens who patrol the slip, is this happening all around the country, can they make money, on a 7 day week, 28 week season, i would gladly pay 30 quid extra,on my launch charge to park in a busy car and trailer park, instead of 5 or 10 quid a day...
treath buchan (anglesey) used to be £2 this season it went upto fiver with a trailer.
With that and the council fees its all becoming far too expensive.

What really winds me up there are the limited spaces for boat trailers due to cars parked all over it on holiday times. Especially when the spectacle is watching us boaters launch and retreave.
I used to go on windermere when the lads were little and the facility there at ferry nab is great, but even that got spoilt a phew years ago when the speed ban came in play.


Money money money take take take
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Old 01 November 2010, 17:42   #4
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Ahh well, if we've got boats we must be rich, easy pickings
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Old 01 November 2010, 18:01   #5
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Ahh well, if we've got boats we must be rich, easy pickings
in fairness it does cost money to provide and maintain slipways. If you then need to add staff to the mix to collect money / enforce any local rules then it inevitably adds up. I'd certainly rather see good slipways than no slipways - but I don't expect my non-boating neighbours to subsidise my interests. I guess most of us don't actually boat in the area where we pay council tax anyway - and in many cases spend very little in the area of a council slip (so there is no economic development argument either).

Its not so much if you've got a boat you must be rich - its more a case of if you've got a boat you'll need to be rich.
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Old 01 November 2010, 18:22   #6
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in fairness it does cost money to provide and maintain slipways. If you then need to add staff to the mix to collect money / enforce any local rules then it inevitably adds up. I'd certainly rather see good slipways than no slipways - but I don't expect my non-boating neighbours to subsidise my interests. I guess most of us don't actually boat in the area where we pay council tax anyway - and in many cases spend very little in the area of a council slip (so there is no economic development argument either).

Its not so much if you've got a boat you must be rich - its more a case of if you've got a boat you'll need to be rich.

I guess it does cost money but how much? I rather think its like the road tax/fuel tax ie much more is raised than actually spent to provide the facility. I would consider that having a slip generates a significant spin off income as people, camp, rent houses, buy petrol, food, eat out etc.

My experience of other european countries is that slips are provided free in most cases as a public amenity to encourage a leisure activity and bring busness to the area but I think our very short sighted local authorities are just after a fast buck all the time and don't think in the long term.


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Old 01 November 2010, 18:47   #7
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I guess it does cost money but how much? I rather think its like the road tax/fuel tax ie much more is raised than actually spent to provide the facility. I would consider that having a slip generates a significant spin off income as people, camp, rent houses, buy petrol, food, eat out etc.

My experience of other european countries is that slips are provided free in most cases as a public amenity to encourage a leisure activity and bring business to the area but I think our very short sighted local authorities are just after a fast buck all the time and don't think in the long term.


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Nicely put .
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Old 01 November 2010, 18:58   #8
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I guess it does cost money but how much? I rather think its like the road tax/fuel tax ie much more is raised than actually spent to provide the facility. I would consider that having a slip generates a significant spin off income as people, camp, rent houses, buy petrol, food, eat out etc.

My experience of other european countries is that slips are provided free in most cases as a public amenity to encourage a leisure activity and bring busness to the area but I think our very short sighted local authorities are just after a fast buck all the time and don't think in the long term.


Davej
I'm boating in rather different places from where these sorts of charges (£25+) are being levied. In rural scotland slipways are few and far between, often free of charge but rarely particularly great (and a pontoon would be unusual), but they are quiet and unmanned, as soon as you need to provide staff your costs become significant. I'm not sure it is so much a tax/profit venture - as just the huge innefficiencies of public sector facilities.

I can only think of one slipway with an "honesty box".

Interestingly there are some slipways and pontoon that i've used which were good at bringing in "local business" - none of them were officially run / provided by the council they were opperated by local businesses / assosciations albeit possibly with local or national government grants to fund the initial investment. I'm also a fan of facilities directly associated with a pub/hotel etc.

When "day sailing" I tend to spend very little in viscinity of the "slipway" - but may spend money in another "county" whilst on the way there/back or at lunchtime etc. Granted I'd spend money when going overnight - but then the cost of launching is probably not the major cost of the trip.
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Old 02 November 2010, 00:07   #9
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I'm boating in rather different places from where these sorts of charges (£25+) are being levied. In rural scotland slipways are few and far between, often free of charge but rarely particularly great (and a pontoon would be unusual), but they are quiet and unmanned, as soon as you need to provide staff your costs become significant. I'm not sure it is so much a tax/profit venture - as just the huge innefficiencies of public sector facilities.

I can only think of one slipway with an "honesty box".

Interestingly there are some slipways and pontoon that i've used which were good at bringing in "local business" - none of them were officially run / provided by the council they were opperated by local businesses / assosciations albeit possibly with local or national government grants to fund the initial investment. I'm also a fan of facilities directly associated with a pub/hotel etc.

When "day sailing" I tend to spend very little in viscinity of the "slipway" - but may spend money in another "county" whilst on the way there/back or at lunchtime etc. Granted I'd spend money when going overnight - but then the cost of launching is probably not the major cost of the trip.
You guys need to come to Pembrokeshire. Free slipways and free pontoons. We think in the long term and see the econoomic benefits that Tourism brings for everybody from the newspaper shop to the hotel or B&B.
You never know the rest of the country might catch up with us one day and see the light but I somehow doubt it.
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Old 02 November 2010, 03:44   #10
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You guys need to come to Pembrokeshire. Free slipways and free pontoons. We think in the long term and see the econoomic benefits that Tourism brings for everybody from the newspaper shop to the hotel or B&B.
You never know the rest of the country might catch up with us one day and see the light but I somehow doubt it.


Im with DaveJ on this one.....

I appreciate the neighbours grass is always greener but to give you an idea of how things could be just take a look at other European countries. (Spain excluded as we've been stung quite badly there in the past!)

Of all the slipways we use here in France, there is only one that charges a fee.....3euros (Granville marina) but to be fair it is a very nice slipway with plenty of space with new pontoons to tie up to and load/unload. During the summer we spend a lot of time in Finisterre where we quite often use a visitors berth in a local marina....39euro's a week to tie up in a marina the likes of MDL would be pround of!!

The main difference that i see is that, here in France owning and using a boat is regarded by the local governments as a way of life not just a passtime for the wealthy.
"supply and demand" gets used a lot in the UK to justify the cost of slipways and marina fee's however other countries experience the same demand but keep the prices reasonable. We are currently on the waiting list for a 7m berth in Granville and when we do eventually get one, (we still have quite a few years to wait!) we hope the pricing will be as realistic as it is today with a 7m space going for 1200 euros a year.

I could draw paralells with the low cost of car ownership too but that's an entirely different thread.....

Unfortunately to me it seems that the biggest obstacle to supplying low cost slipways and marina's in the UK is greed, not only on the part of the council's but also the likes of the big 'marina chains' Premier, MDL etc...

Shame really, as getting out on the water in some form or another should be something that everyone should be able to experience, not just the top earners....

Lets all organise a protest cruise....i have a ready supply of used tyres to burn should we need them

Simon
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Old 02 November 2010, 04:01   #11
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Unfortunately to me it seems that the biggest obstacle to supplying low cost slipways and marina's in the UK is greed, not only on the part of the council's but also the likes of the big 'marina chains' Premier, MDL etc...
The chains dictate the market. We have 3 to be 4 decent marinas in Falmouth. One being Premier, the others, privately owned. Guess what? They're all pretty much the same price. However, in their defence, the initial set-up costs must be astronomic. But, from then on, how much do a bunch of students running around in shorts and polo shirts cost?
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Old 02 November 2010, 04:26   #12
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Hi Mollers

Yep, agree, but isnt it a shame then that Falmouth (or is it Truro?) council didnt decide to create a marina of their own, subsidised by the tax payer offering berths and launching at reduced rates?
At the end of the day my tax contributions seem to subsidise every other scheme and project that i have no interest in so for once it would be nice to actually benefit from all that money spent.....

About 8yrs ago i was in Falmouth on the Coastguard ETV 'Farsky', based there during two winters running. I then came back to Falmouth twice last year towing two commercial vessels into A&P.....Wow, what a change!!!......shame the Lord Nelson has gone though

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Old 02 November 2010, 04:29   #13
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You guys need to come to Pembrokeshire. Free slipways and free pontoons. We think in the long term and see the econoomic benefits that Tourism brings for everybody from the newspaper shop to the hotel or B&B.
I was going to mention this, but didn't want to gloat.

When I hear about the charges imposed for use of 'public' slipways elsewhere in the country, I realise I shouldn't moan about our (free) pontoons being removed during the winter months.
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Old 02 November 2010, 08:13   #14
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are local councils greedy

charges seem to differ in regions, but for councils whom promote tourisum and lesuire, a ribster wishing to use a slipway from another county will pay 20quid to reg and 13 quid to use the slip, i have to put a sticker on my rib yearly, would it be possible to reg for the whole of uk, with for instance the rya, and pay a discounted rate et slipways,

a second sticker for your trailer, wardens could ..spot check...boats off the trailer,
and cover a number of slips, when was the last time you were asked to produce your boat docs at a slipway
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Old 02 November 2010, 14:21   #15
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Here I can launch my RIB for free at the public slipway, and even park the car and trailer in the vicinity for free, the private marina charge approx £5, I think - haven't tried that lately... Some of the boat associations would like a small donation to launch.
Sort of makes up for the expensive beer
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Old 02 November 2010, 14:30   #16
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Sort of makes up for the expensive beer
You must be doing a lot of launching.
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Old 02 November 2010, 14:52   #17
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Hi Mollers

Yep, agree, but isnt it a shame then that Falmouth (or is it Truro?) council didnt decide to create a marina of their own,
True, but that's not the way it's done over here, unfortunately.

The Harbour Commissioners run the show, not the council.

Do you get involved with MTS?
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Old 02 November 2010, 15:22   #18
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True, but that's not the way it's done over here, unfortunately.

The Harbour Commissioners run the show, not the council.

Do you get involved with MTS?
Bonsoir Mr Mollers....

Yes, Tactow has on occasion come out to help us reel in the big fish....
The last one that we did was the 'Grandiosa'.... a 75000gt chinese bulker that used a Stbd channel marker for target practice on the Shannon. Nearly destroyed its prop so we went to tow it back from Ireland into your local friendly repair yard.
The vessel which we used for that was the 'Thrax'.
Last year we also brought in the 'sand weaver' as she had engine troubles....come to think of it, A&P should pay us commission!
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