Advanced course and twins! - Page 2

Rogue Wave · 14 January 2004, 20:10

JG

How much was your instructor course at SWAC

Jono Garton · 14 January 2004, 20:58

Rogue Wave - Not sure, as it was quite some time ago. Have a look at their website, not sure of their address though!!!!

The Jackeens · 14 January 2004, 21:37

240

Paul Glatzel · 15 January 2004, 07:31

Rupert Bear

The centre does sound excellent and the range of craft offered first class. I think the point here is not about the school in question but rather the rather unlevel playing field created by ultimately what is a government funded institution competing directly with commercial enterprises. Ultimately as Rogue Wave says it then comes down to providing a better service to the 'customer' that justifies a price differential - so perhaps ultimately that sort of competition is good for everyone as it keeps everyone on their toes, good outfits prosper and poor ones disappear.

I would urge anyone considering a course to look at the 'whole package' when deciding which course/school to choose. If the first question you ask is "how much " then you might question what you are trying to achieve with the course as isn't the more pertinent question what do i get for my money/what am i going to learn/what more can you offer than other schools.

Interestingly i think £250 for a level 2 course (generally the norm near me) is actually very cheap. If you compare powerboat schools with driving schools and compare the investment and resources needed to run a decent operation then there is a massive differential.

As to the boats question you can argue this both ways. Certainly customers do generally expect good kit (the school wouldn't pass its annual RYA centre inspection unless its fleet was appropriate - certainly SWAC have 5.5m boats as i've used them - so if you were 4+ in a 4m you were unlucky) but ultimately its the Instructor that makes or breaks the course. We run a 4m Searider, a 5.6m Avon and a 8.5m Scorpion on courses and of course whilst the Scorpion is the dream boat to use the quality of training doesn't vary between the boats. It is the knowledge of how to handle a boat rather than the handling of a particular boat that we all try to develop.

Paul

dgpw · 15 January 2004, 14:42

I could not agree more with that last paragraph. though their are major differences between driving a 4m with a 50 in bad weather to driving a 9 m with twin inboards. I am just wondering why their is not more consistency demanded by the RYA for the new advanced. A student should not just be safe but should also have superb driving ability, their are big differences between the centres and their teaching standard. we have all hared where to go if you want a garneted pass. I personally only pass on the advanced if the student is very very competent.

Rogue Wave · 15 January 2004, 15:15

One thing I found was that my 4.7 mtr Sea Rider (still missed), took a lot more driving ability and feel than the Ribtec 6.5. I was always grateful for the fact that I learn't my wavecraft (what wavecraft!) in a small boat. I think it gave me a bit more respect for the sea as well.

So I think a 5.4 m would be a fine boat to learn in. The 4 mtr is a bit small however. I don't see any benefit from learning in a Big Boat at all,

Going back on to the commercial side of things as a private company and generally one or two man bands can adapt more quickly and pursue other oppertunities centred around your training skool than a Local Authority Institution can.

How much are your instructor courses Paul, by the way

Paul Glatzel · 15 January 2004, 15:29

DGPW

Agreed, but in fairness i wasn't suggesting you do the advanced in a 4m RIB!!

Quote:

I am just wondering why their is not more consistency demanded by the RYA for the new advanced

Not sure i see what you mean here. The new logbook does make it far clearer what is required in the advanced and that should ensure everyone sings from the same hymm sheet and help everyone in respect of their interpretation of what to cover and to what depth. You will also be getting Instructor notes/resources in due course which will help too.

It is imperitive that those taking the Advanced course are up to the standard due to the ability to subsequently go on and take 12 fee paying passengers out. I for one don't want to pass anyone that will then go and endanger the fee paying public - as i'm sure the MCA/RYA is more likely to take an interest in the school that passed them!

If you feel there are schools operating below standards then I feel that you have a duty to raise that with Jon Mendez @ the RYA. I appreciate that may not be easy but it can be done in confidence and helps to ensure standards are kept high

Paul

Paul Glatzel · 16 January 2004, 06:58

Rogue Wave

PBI - £300 (3 days), ABPI £250 (2 days) - all courses coming via RIB.net though get a 10% discount. Dates & prices on the main school site.

Paul

CJL · 16 January 2004, 11:57

As probably the most disillusioned advanced powerboat instructor and Senior Instructor on RIBNet I`m extremely concerned that the RYA is failing, repeatedly to make good decisions.

The new Dinghy Sailing Scheme has been revised and includes many un-necessary elements but misses some quite fundamental one out.

Continually changing course structures in an attempt to generate revenue not providing a consitent approach to qualification.

The new national sailing academy at Portland, rubbish location, rubbish transport links, private companies benefitting from Sport for England and Lottery money, illegal handling of fuel, in-experienced management etc etc,

The new and old advanced course, badly thought out, confusing, poorly implemented, suffers from the stigma of commercial endorsment and down right too easy. If you say something is advanced people get ideas into their heads they can take on the 15ft waves and the F8!

Buying a load of new ribs, shipping them to Oz for Olympics then selling them at a loss cause it was too expensive to ship back. (Buy them in Oz or do the sums before hand)

Badly organising Sailability, student and school sailing and forcing decisions on these groups without any discussions.

Organising childrens sailing events in Novmber/December.

Telling RNLI Coxswains they are not good enough at boat handling to be a powerboat coach.

Unfortunately the list goes on and on and it has caused me to pretty much stop teaching any RYA courses. This used to be an organisation which I used to be proud to play a part of.

What has happened?

CJL

Rupert Bear · 16 January 2004, 12:14

Quote:

Originally posted by CJL
people get ideas into their heads they can take on the 15ft waves and the F8!

You mean you can't and they are SUPPOSED to stay in the water all the time? I thought being airborne was the best part about RIB's

dgpw · 19 January 2004, 15:02

Interesting points, sure their are many more points that could be added to that list. An exam on the advanced course would atleast ensure that dayskipper knowledge is in place.